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標題一覽 [ - ]
716: 又見盜圖 (0)653: 找尋能夠幫忙做日文溝通的紳士~ (1)
711: 徵求有意願的夥伴承接專案case (0)649: 圖像授權問題想請教大家>< (0)
705: https://skima.jp/request/search (0)644: 這裡有人接過手遊UI介面的案子嗎? (0)
704: 網站設計的菜鳥問題 (2)643: 請問有人接過這公司嗎? (0)
702: 2D動畫製作報價 (1)642: 最近這種的網站感覺挺常見 (0)
695: 開了一個接案 (1)640: 前幾天友人介紹我來這社團 (0)
693: 最近想投稿出版社封面插畫 (1)638: 請問soho的各位是怎麼辦信用卡的? (2)
677: 請問大家有看過這間嗎? (1)619: https://illustbuy.com/ (6)
661: [詢價]英文試題券插圖 (2)551: 委託製作3D人物模型,求報價 (1)
655: 第一次繪圖和看法 (2)378: 請問...如果想接小說封面插畫的工作該怎麼入門才好呢?? (7)

徵求R18封繪及插圖繪師(=゚ω゚)ノ ◆FSUlXeK50c ID:1D5ila5kNo.474回報11推文回應

正籌備R18男性向小說插畫本,總共兩本

第一本封繪+十三張黑白插圖,細分如下:
a.封繪+12張插圖
b.1張插圖
※可全包

第二本封繪+九張黑白插圖,細分如下:
a.封繪
b.4張插圖
b.2張插圖
c.2張插圖
d.1張插圖
※封繪需帶其中一組插圖,亦可全包

床戲或色氣畫面居多,會給簡單的要求和參考資料,尊重繪師定奪

---開價表---

封繪底價2000
>背景依照完善度最多+1000上限
插圖底價500
>背景依照完善度最多+500上限
使用圖片採授權制
贈本

---

因為預算關係只能開到這個價格,真抱歉Orz
後續販售主要是同人場+通販
意者請來信附P網之類的放圖處,謝謝!

收起推文
1推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 你少了尺寸和截稿日期 (PjL8UsLM 15/03/26 23:42)
(゚∀゚)<: 感覺價格有點廉價 (ANko9faE 15/03/27 01:51)
(゚∀゚)<: 目前財力沒辦法開到商業小說的價,只能走同人小說了,一種新手練功區的感覺 (? (5wIVnDQo 15/03/27 02:13)
(゚∀゚)<: 這感覺比較像是友情價... (4tqTDDxQ 15/03/27 03:27)
(゚∀゚)<: 有預算限制的話就張數少一點,提高單張價格比較好找人 (gVLddDbk 15/03/27 10:15)
(゚∀゚)<: 不然這種價格就算能找到人,大多也只會是新手中的新手,然後品質不穩定、搞不好畫到一半人就跑了 (gVLddDbk 15/03/27 10:17)
(゚∀゚)<: 讀者不會因為圖很多就買小說,大多還是看喜不喜歡文章,但是圖不好看可能會讓本來想買的人買不下手,多多考慮吧~ (gVLddDbk 15/03/27 10:20)
(゚∀゚)<: 感謝建議,我調整一下價格XD (iffIYlkc 15/03/27 10:23)
(゚∀゚)<: 原PO還是濃縮成幾張插圖 直接鎖定想要的中大手邀稿比較快 (l6Fu3c3s 15/03/28 13:44)
(゚∀゚)<: 這陣子都沒人的話就這麼辦吧XD (uMBvtkPw 15/03/28 16:43)
(゚∀゚)<: 對原PO的小說有興趣,請問有出品過的本子嘛? (1i4363Pk 15/04/07 23:00)
無標題 ◆FSUlXeK50c ID:5wIVnDQoNo.476回報推文
>你少了尺寸和截稿日期 (PjL8UsLM
感謝提醒

尺寸是A5
兩本最終截稿日期為年底,封繪30日/張、插圖10日/張
中間有繪師包走哪些方案會在這說明
那目前只有在這徵徵看,八月開始如果洞還很大會再想辦法
無標題 ◆FSUlXeK50c ID:iffIYlkcNo.477回報7推文

價格方面,我覺得可以看成一種機會啦XD
閉關修行中也好、接案不順遂也好、想用三成功力輕鬆賺點外快的大手也好
所以把兩本書的規劃打散開來提供零散的小案子

(゚∀゚)<: 這種價格…沒附上參考的完稿度不太容易徵到人耶~500一般頂多畫個Q版圖給你吧 (gVLddDbk 15/03/27 10:03)
(゚∀゚)<: 黑白插圖一般同人行情再低也至少800、1000,然後你又要這麼多張…祝你順利找到人啦 (gVLddDbk 15/03/27 10:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 文字方面已經完稿了,不過價格方面應該是我參考資料有錯了 (iffIYlkc 15/03/27 10:22)
(゚∀゚)<: 感謝建議,立刻改價格XD (iffIYlkc 15/03/27 10:23)
(゚∀゚)<: 想要中大手直接去邀稿就好啦 (Qvk19qS. 15/03/27 13:07)
(゚∀゚)<: 有點興趣耶,但是有沒有你至少要求的水準參考? (0mxXqYe2 15/03/31 00:57)
(゚∀゚)<: 我也有點興趣,可是平常畫的都是一般向說,有需要試稿? (VT9/Tp7Y 15/04/06 11:11)
開價調整(=゚ω゚)ノ ◆FSUlXeK50c ID:iffIYlkcNo.478回報4推文

封繪底價3000、4000、5000
>背景依照完善度最多+50%上限
插圖底價1000
>背景依照完善度最多+50%上限
使用圖片採授權制
贈本

---

感謝島民提供價格參考,之前我參考的資訊是2010年同人行情Orz
封繪底價分三款,來信請指定XD
那實際報價會比較多,增幅看背景!

(゚∀゚)<: 我覺得價錢可以再上加個兩千 封面會決定購買欲 相較之下內頁插圖可以少一點沒關係 不用太多張 (QB3IZAUw 15/03/27 21:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 我是想說走精美的話底價5K 背景適當那加總後也是6.5K~7.5K (iffIYlkc 15/03/27 22:23)
(゚∀゚)<: 那8K以上是我目前還無法接受的境界XD 畢竟才剛開始出本 名氣還沒粗乃丸銷售變數頗多的 (iffIYlkc 15/03/27 22:26)
(゚∀゚)<: 新手一名,請問授權意思是指單次使用價格的意思嗎? (Y46QSaUA 15/03/27 23:50)
無標題 ◆FSUlXeK50c ID:uMBvtkPwNo.482回報推文
>請問授權意思是指單次使用價格的意思嗎? (Y46QSaUA
所有權在繪師方,授權我可以使用這樣
我這邊會用在書上,某幾頁可能用在網頁宣傳或通販用的試閱面
再版方面希望能繼續沿用圖片使用權,如果內文有修改會再寄贈本給繪師

繪師方面公開這些圖片前就跟我討論時間點
封繪、我這邊會做試閱的圖畫可以在出書前公開
未公開的圖則希望是在書開始販售後再公開
無標題 ◆FSUlXeK50c ID:holgDy5gNo.500回報推文
>有沒有你至少要求的水準參考? (0mxXqYe2 15/03/31 00:57)
沒有耶,不介意的話請直接來信 :3
無標題 ◆FSUlXeK50c ID:FYKXIFE.No.514回報推文
>平常畫的都是一般向說,有需要試稿? (VT9/Tp7Y 15/04/06 11:11)
不嫌棄的話請來信:3
手邊還有不少部待機中的小說
雖然沒有一般向的(欸)但封繪幾乎都是走一般向 XD
插圖的話才會綁成人向
無標題 ◆FSUlXeK50c ID:N8SEq8CYNo.518回報1推文

感謝島民們的指導與報名,已進入消化期,暫停招募惹

>請問有出品過的本子嘛? (1i4363Pk 15/04/07 23:00)
還沒有,目前是兩本剛開始、兩本快完成XD

Mark: D5MV1O http://www.FyLitCl7Pf7kjQdDUOLQOuaxTXbj5iNG.com (OJr0l5lo 16/02/09 12:30)
無標題 ◆FSUlXeK50c ID:BKVy/irUNo.523回報推文

承蒙島民們照顧,目前同時在趕工+印調階段
和各式各樣的繪師討論受益良多,重點大家人都超好!

預定會在百合翁場販,有興趣的太太可參考印調內的成果資料
印調:http://goo.gl/forms/awnjsXxjPD


團隊徵人 同人遊戲 2D繪師 3D繪師 女角 男角 製作 家裡蹲 ID:S/qXILIkNo.469回報推文回應

晚安您好
最近有新的同人遊戲想動工
這是我在R18遊戲領域最後一役
所以預算上沒什麼上限
基本預算10萬或15萬(視2D或3D全包)
賣得好再分紅一次
2D繪師或3D繪師皆可
有興趣的歡迎

工作期:2-3個月(手速快的兩個月內)

女角為王元姬形象


總工作量:
先畫一張王元姬形像圖 草圖簡易上色即可 重點在感覺
每一套衣服繪製前 需先繪製草圖及簡易上色 可參考既有服裝修改設計
女角10件衣服 兩種臉蛋 兩種頭髮(90分質量)
4名男武將 帥氣大叔 身體 頭部模型可共用再修改即可(80分質量)
可能還有一些小忙要幫一下 目前還沒想到

人設形象圖要求:
看圖就要能感受到角色的溫柔 婉約 傲嬌 君臨天下等特質 比重在臉蛋神韻與頭髮


2D繪師與3D繪師差異部分:
3D沒什麼問題 就衣服 頭髮模型 男角模型和所有貼圖
主要是2D繪師的配合部分
我會講解如何在3D模型上畫好定位線(用3dsmax) 然後就可以在PS進行繪製
貼圖繪製就類似將3D模型攤平在一張紙上 可以從提供的參考圖理解


為節省繪圖資源 衣服大多是短袖短裙緞帶 或春麗那種服裝 無長裙設定
配合度高 好溝通 北部台北範圍或北上 需討論細節
業界非業界 同人繪師都行 只要水準夠並且有足夠時間完成都歡迎
請附上上述提到需要具備的元素如可愛女角 衣服皺摺功力展現等相關作品集
因字數限制的關係文章有縮減 完整版請至小屋觀看
聯絡方式 巴哈小屋
http://goo.gl/KYJBhO


常遇到把圖交出去後 對方就把圖拿去修改的事 家裡蹲 ID:fEJc27JMNo.468回報6推文回應

常遇到把圖交出去後 對方就把圖拿去修改的事
有時甚至等遊戲上市後才發現圖被對方給更動了
想貼外包圖在網路上
有些廠商還會限制說只能貼他們修改過的版本
對著作權法律不是很熟 只知道基本上就算是外包圖
在沒有特別著名在契約上的狀況下
人格權是作者 廠商只有該圖的著作財產權
但有權利去在未經作者同意狀況下去更動
甚至限制作者公開原圖嗎
這些問題困擾我好久

(゚∀゚)<: 改到什麼程度??拿去改背景、改色和加特效都應該是很常見的事 (a9QaiXU6 15/03/15 12:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 臉整個改掉那種orz (fEJc27JM 15/03/15 12:10)
(゚∀゚)<: 授權:作者擁著作權,獲授權方可使用圖 / 買斷:著作權賣給對方 (yM6.Bjn2 15/03/17 13:08)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果你把著作權賣斷 那在不影響你的聲譽(人格權)的情況下是可以修改以及限制你公開你的圖的 (zb5hklRU 15/03/17 15:34)
(゚∀゚)<: 嗯嗯 那若不想再遇到圖被修改了,又不准作者貼原圖的狀況下,簽約時要要求授權就可以了嗎? (uTBHkMHk 15/03/18 09:28)
: 另外想請教一下 授權詳細要怎麼寫會比較恰當 (JwDmpDIc 15/03/18 15:46)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:pPUR1Zg6No.470回報1推文

沒有特別鑽研法條,就憑個人主觀認知簡單說一下,有錯請鞭小力一點。

著作權分成「著作人格權」及「著作財產權」,
法條可以看這裡:http://law.moj.gov.tw/LawClass/LawAll.aspx?PCode=J0070017
著作人格權看15~21條,著作財產權第22~29條都是,不過跟業界用詞不一定相同,
建議至少這十幾條撥空看一下,其實也不是很多。


其中「著作人格權」是對於一個創作人最基本的尊重,也就是公開宣稱作品的作者為自己的權力。(第16條)
由於作品的作者是誰這是一種無法改變的既定事實,所以人格權「無法轉讓及買賣」,(第21條)
但是作者可以「不行使」這項權力。(第20條)

「人格權」實務而言是一種名分上的權力,也會跟「聲譽」有關,
比如說別人宣稱他是你的作品的作者,明顯違反客觀事實,就是侵犯你的人格權。
或是有人把你的圖亂修改,導致大眾對原作者產生負面觀感或誤會等等,也算侵犯你的聲譽(人格權)。(第17條)


「著作財產權」則可以授權或者是轉讓(賣斷),
財產權細分下面有很多小項目,使用權、版權、重製權、改作權...等,也可以單個項目授權、轉讓。
授權就是你同意買家可以使用該項權力,但是你仍保有該項權力,
轉讓則是你完全喪失該項權力,變成買方擁有該權力。

一般來說接案簽約就是針對買方需要的項目授權就可以了,如果要賣斷的話費用應該要收比較高這樣。
而合約通常依照需求不同、多是買方準備,怎麼寫其實不同人用字用詞都會有一定的落差,
簡單來說只要在簽約時注意有沒有「轉讓」的類似字眼,即可避免完全喪失權力的問題。
至於改作權(修改作品的權力)雖然可買賣,但買家修改你的作品的大原則仍然不能違反第17條的人格權。

(゚∀゚)<: 感謝pPUR1Zg6詳細解說! (Dqg1hMDM 15/03/20 13:04)

這有插畫家打算接案子 家裡蹲 ID:mr1moKJcNo.460回報23推文回應

這有插畫家打算接案子
沒有人氣新手的第一件工作
免費提供服務

不管你是想畫電玩/小說或著桌上遊戲的東西
都可以唷
願意的人請討論聯絡方式

=====
用不同方法說同樣的一件事情
會有不同的結果

收起推文
13推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 沒你的作品誰知道你什麼風格 而且連連繫方式都沒有 (RHwg.6Zg 15/02/24 00:54)
(゚∀゚)<: 連絡方式看看怎麼拿呀~ (FjDnWZ5. 15/02/24 05:53)
(゚∀゚)<: 不要免費出賣你的勞力跟技術 你會後悔 (gJ4ll4J2 15/02/24 09:49)
(゚∀゚)<: 我平常在家裡面也會畫畫呀,我覺得有人用的上也好, (qGDGDL5E 15/02/24 20:05)
(゚∀゚)<: 不然畫完就只是放著也浪費 (qGDGDL5E 15/02/24 20:05)
(゚∀゚)<: 總之有興趣的人請說一下你想怎麼連絡吧 (qGDGDL5E 15/02/24 21:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 要做就要做有錢拿的 不要賤賣自己的技術 (SkDr7lYQ 15/02/25 00:29)
(゚∀゚)<: 好啦,那就請有興趣的人先開價再給連絡方法吧 不過先說好我是新手 請不要太期待技術 (dcl0JUFE 15/02/25 03:59)
(゚∀゚)<: 附上自己的作品還有聯絡方式是最基本的吧,免費或低價接案就可以用這麼不負責任的自薦文?口氣又不知道在跩什麼,誰敢用啊 (nfZBHSN. 15/02/25 08:46)
(゚∀゚)<: 免費當然可以跩啊 你們想要免錢又恭敬的奴隸 要求也太多 (zljaYhrk 15/02/25 11:50)
(゚∀゚)<: 說真的 免錢拿人家的服務 基本上也沒有權利要求對方要負啥責任跟態度了 (7QoQWf.Q 15/02/25 12:13)
(゚∀゚)<: 拜託,現在是原PO求人給他工作,是他自願不拿酬勞的,我不是說應該多卑微還是怎樣,但至少態度該擺端正吧?連作品跟聯絡方式都不放是哪招? (nfZBHSN. 15/02/25 13:12)
(゚∀゚)<: 算了,有興趣找不拿錢但不知道品質如何、會不會做到一半就跑的接案者的人自己跟原PO聯絡吧,我就不在這瞎攪和了 (nfZBHSN. 15/02/25 13:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 求人www (5c4WnjxU 15/02/25 17:03)
(゚∀゚)<: 免費去巴哈肯定一堆人愛你 (iZR60t3U 15/02/25 18:00)
(゚∀゚)<: 我有空會去看看 (Hb24ZkPM 15/02/25 21:16)
(゚∀゚)<: 求人WW慣老闆都這樣說的啊 我是賞你飯吃耶 (SkDr7lYQ 15/02/25 22:33)
(゚∀゚)<: (nfZBHSN)我不是老闆,只是一個接外包賺錢的。都動用到「免費」這詞了,只差沒說「我不收酬勞,拜託給我工作」而已,用求人有錯嗎? (TR28bWeY 15/02/26 11:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 唉罷了,原PO八成只是閒著沒事上來PO文想玩玩,我這麼認真簡直活像個白癡,就這樣吧 (TR28bWeY 15/02/26 11:55)
(゚∀゚)<: 請問是誰跟你講不收酬勞等同求人?那麼那些幫忙照顧老人幼童的人都是在求人給他們照顧嗎? (QNBjI3WI 15/02/27 01:55)
(゚∀゚)<: 那基本上除了你的用詞之外,求人這種事情在這裡沒有哪裡不好。除了你的用詞之外 (QNBjI3WI 15/02/27 01:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 免費都沒人要哭哭喔www (FJGrldwo 15/03/07 18:14)
(゚∀゚)<: 2 (HAyA8pF6 16/04/23 14:07)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:nNh385KANo.465回報推文

你不如在塗鴉王國開放點圖吧
單純的委託也不會給你意見的

無標題 家裡蹲 ID:wsrLK0S.No.466回報推文

原PO有P網或放圖的地方可以參考嗎?

無標題 家裡蹲 ID:OWvv2SWANo.467回報推文

推聞吵成這樣到時候放火材人上來不就ㄏㄏ


不好意思...想詢問一下... 家裡蹲 ID:UGdv8ljkNo.464回報6推文回應

不好意思...想詢問一下...
最近收到了一封委託信,要求幫忙繪製專頁頭像(沒有簽合約)
不過對方是在國外,想說收款方面會不會有什麼風險之類的...
對方有跟我要求一些資料,不過我只有中華郵政的戶頭,
會沒辦法收到對方款項或收了款項後牽扯到什麼法律問題嗎..?

(゚∀。)<: 不簽合約本身就有風險了 (/PpvCA9A 15/02/27 16:06)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果你不怕到時候圖都畫好卻沒到錢的後果 那沒簽合約是沒差啦 (69D.xhe2 15/02/28 23:59)
(*´д`)<: 是不擔心拿不到錢,不過比較擔心收了錢之後會不會有問題這樣 (0/E591eg 15/03/02 19:41)
(゚∀゚)<: 若你不會很介意對方把圖用在什麼地方且確定拿得到錢,可以不用簽,某方面來說沒合約限制,你以後要把這些圖隨便用在啥地方,對方也無法干涉 (PX5EAtGI 15/03/04 14:12)
(゚∀゚)<: 不過我遇過因為沒簽約 合作到一半因為一些事起了爭執 對方就說那這些圖我不要了 對方就消失了 辛苦了兩個月 半毛錢都沒拿到 其實最好要簽 也順便把中止合作還是要給錢並給多少給寫進去 (PX5EAtGI 15/03/04 14:57)
(゚∀゚)<: paypal~ (OWvv2SWA 15/03/13 23:23)

在粉絲頁發圖 家裡蹲 ID:izXfiETsNo.442回報9推文回應

在粉絲頁發圖
突然有人敲我說要不要接外包
去瞭解發現是某間出版社要把他們旗下的小說做成類似PV還是AVG的東西

對方說酬勞用抽成方式抽10%
然後說這是要做好幾集的專案
做了這個大概兩三年不用擔心錢的問題
說預估銷售量賣出10萬張
我可以拿多少叭啦叭啦
但因為出版商的上層還在觀望狀態
所以目前不能簽約

我盧說不要用抽成
要用算張的方式
一張給多少錢
對方說:蛤?是可以啦,可是這樣你很吃虧喔,因為我預估的銷售量是十萬張喔,假設賣一張算兩百塊,你抽10%有二十塊錢喔,十萬張乘上20你想想多少
我是可以啦,但是這樣算這樣你只拿到兩三萬喔
(我腦呆差點被說服了,但是問有在接外包的人說抽成真的很沒保障)

我跟對方說至少要簽約才有保障
對方說:啊可是出版社插畫沒在簽約的
我跟對方盧很久
對方才說:好啦好啦,我去跟我家編輯講,但我家編輯一定覺得超奇怪,因為我們的行規不是這樣
我說:簽約才有保障啊
對方說:啊要是你們做的差對廠商沒保障啊,所以一般沒在簽的
(我腦呆也差點被說服了,懷疑自己是不是在無理取鬧)
(可是問有在接外包的朋友說沒簽約的外包千萬不要做)

後來細問才發現他說的10%是抽掉給出版社跟金石堂那種各大通路,剩下的乘上10%
而且他們出版社是還在觀望的狀態
所以現況是他們要做一個DEMO,然後拿給出版社高層看
也就是說如果出版社高層不要拿不到錢
(這裡他還強調說如果高層不要可以在同人場賣,可想而知這樣有幫忙做的人一定拿更少)

然後問一些朋友,他們說那間出版社的輕小說不可能銷售量這麼高,因為他們很不會賣東西

總之覺得雷點太多就推掉了

請各位不要被騙了@@a


當時被拉進他們的製作群組,發現超多人在裡面,也就是他騙了很多人進去一起幫他做那個PV還是AVG的東西啊..

(・ー・)ノ: 聽得出是在說哪間出版社,前起作家版權事件的確是出版社得負擔的錯,不過這起事件聽起來是前起事件以後,趁亂跑近來亂的某人 (c7DUyeFQ 15/02/03 10:25)
(・ー・)ノ: 那人自己在經營偶像同步直播的觀看提供服務,跟出版社合作後,使用出版社名義到處招搖撞騙 (c7DUyeFQ 15/02/03 10:26)
(・ー・)ノ: 用出版社名義認識電視台跟海外廠商後,又反過來用海外廠商的高知名度來騙畫家們用低價或是免費接案 (c7DUyeFQ 15/02/03 10:26)
(・ー・)ノ: 出版社也被此人造成幾十萬的虧損 (c7DUyeFQ 15/02/03 10:26)
(・ー・)ノ: 此人做了許多讓人印象深刻的事情,所以應該記得的是這人名字跟臉蛋 (c7DUyeFQ 15/02/03 10:28)
(・ー・)ノ: 因為此人已經不在這間出版社了,這幾年還是有在相關產業流竄 (c7DUyeFQ 15/02/03 10:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 明明不在這間公司卻假冒公司名義是詐騙吧...... (fnJxw9hA 15/02/03 10:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 這次的跟c7DUyeFQ獎得好像不同人的樣子... (C2cImSmM 15/02/03 15:00)
(゚∀゚)<: 真可怕 (zW.5rKfk 15/02/08 13:36)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:izXfiETsNo.443回報9推文

補充說明一下
感覺那人拉人的門檻很隨便
我有接外包的朋友聽到也想去跟對方玩玩看
隨便加FB對方就衝過來問要不要接

總之大家還是小心點
如果有不小心答應的朋友
趕快跳坑吧
反正沒有簽約
你沒有法律責任

(゚∀゚)<: 抽%的真的聽起來不太靠譜... 想以前也笨笨的簽了一個網頁遊戲的案子,說營運之後給%,結果那遊戲根本不打算收費... (1ZqHkq5Y 15/02/02 09:12)
(゚∀゚)<: 那間出版社名字是兩個字 (N9/Fne6s 15/02/02 13:22)
(゚∀゚)<: 私自把某作者書代理到國外卻未告知作者,等國外粉絲來信,作者才發現的那家 (FiL8ezNA 15/02/02 13:29)
(゚∀゚)<: 那人在圈內這兩個月名聲很差,只是要拉人來自肥而已,不要跟它合作,會慘死 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:47)
(゚∀゚)<: 對了對了,那個人說話很喜歡畫大餅又自肥,根本可能也是他說服出版社相信他 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 我後來聽說能賣十萬已經是超暢銷的等級了,他預估十萬超騙der (izXfiETs 15/02/02 19:07)
(゚∀゚)<: 出版社首刷差不多2千本到3千本, 首周內賣超過五百本就可以上暢銷排行榜了,首刷賣光就是暢銷書了 你說呢 (N9gxMiVo 15/02/03 04:33)
(゚∀゚)<: 通路成本大概是售價的5成~6成,也就是賣兩百的東西通路要抽走ㄧ百 (N9gxMiVo 15/02/03 04:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 能夠預估銷售量賣出10萬的公司,基本上他們的前作應該在圈內也是無人不知無人不曉的程度,如果他們沒有前作或你聽都沒聽過,那就是唬爛啦! (N9gxMiVo 15/02/03 04:50)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:QB4gE1tANo.447回報2推文

1.因做了某台灣虛擬歌手pv投票拿了第一名而覺得自己天下無敵
2.據本人說很討厭跟人群接觸,沒必要絕對不會出門
3.職業是炒股票師,上班地點是自家(????)
4.討厭開口閉口談錢的職業繪師,所以喜歡業餘又肯上心學習的人才(?)
5.要求圖的品質,但完全不想付錢。
6.伊茲米鐵粉,說的好像真的跟人家很熟。

還有台灣輕小賣到十萬的只有曾經的某三天后吧?這牛也吹太大了。

(゚∀゚)<: 另外出版社邀稿外包都一定會簽約,沒簽才奇怪 (QB4gE1tA 15/02/02 21:16)
(゚∀゚)<: 天啊 我也好想加他好友來玩喔www (XxLCofPo 15/02/02 22:03)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:T.QD1N0gNo.449回報8推文

有時後價格太低不是發包人問題

而是接包的人本身能帶來的商業利益太低
不可能說你自己粉絲團不到200讚.沒出過產品又沒有人氣
結果開跟大手一樣的價格
(即使你可以模仿他的風格也不代表你可以跟他產生相同利潤)

這只是一個妥協跟公道的問題

反過來看
難道你會願意花更多錢去買一台二手機車嗎?
即使他們有著類似的優點(耗油量低etc)
你也會選擇同款新車吧

當然如果你是想背刺的話
你應該把對方的資料貼出來
島民才有辦法幫你刺

否則要討拍的話
我們也只能勸勸你不要太放在心上
其他都幫不上忙

(゚∀゚)<: 就算是技術問題也不代表要妥協接近義工的價格 (CWaX8pXs 15/02/05 09:32)
(゚∀゚)<: 那為啥老版要你去COPY其他人的畫風呢XD? (q8cnuXL. 15/02/05 10:01)
(゚∀゚)<: 遊戲外包很多模仿畫風的需求啊 圖需求量多但畫風得統一 功力不到要模仿也困難 (oXhZqmWI 15/02/05 12:50)
(゚∀゚)<: 能力跟業界差太多就回去練功不要亂接案拉低行情 站在接案的立場還是只能堅持正常稿費 尤其台灣慣老闆太多⋯⋯ (0G1HAby2 15/02/05 15:35)
(゚∀゚)<: 就像去便利商店打工 能力再差都不能低於最低時薪,如果老闆覺得你做不好 即使把你開除也不可以少發薪水 是同個道理 (0G1HAby2 15/02/05 15:35)
(゚∀゚)<: 與其接那麼低的價格外包,又不一定能到練功。運氣不好對方還很龜毛。還不如把那時間省起來練功 (bVMMhsK2 15/02/05 21:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 你不會是原po說的當事人吧? (bVMMhsK2 15/02/05 21:57)
(゚∀゚)<: 原po只是想警告一些接外包新手吧 貼資料待會被對方告也很麻煩 只好這樣隱誨暗示了 (GLm6VnnA 15/02/05 23:13)
應原貼要求刪除連接,貼文放著 家裡蹲 ID:fd4quy5.No.463回報9推文

應原貼要求刪除連接,推文放著

感覺跟這篇文章講的好像是同一個人

(゚∀゚)<: 是同一個沒錯 (BaNy.IDo 15/02/26 14:33)
(゚∀゚)<: 專門找汽油人嗎這間w? (zeMfxp2A 15/02/26 17:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 不是這"間" 是這個人自己想做遊戲...出版社買不買帳還不知道呢 (duFbSJ3g 15/02/26 20:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 兩千就想拿到那種品質的背景圖??傻子才會上鉤吧 (duFbSJ3g 15/02/26 20:31)
(゚∀゚)<: 好像徵到人了耶 (DgapGDJc 15/02/26 22:01)
(゚∀゚)<: 發文主題還直接掛出版社名字,根本在害出版社 (WOAs.T/. 15/02/27 00:59)
(゚∀゚)<: 就是傻子多才讓soho削價競爭啊 (LX.heOj2 15/02/27 01:27)
(゚∀゚)<: https://www.facebook.com/ueishiang01/photos/a.164265496952102.36464.163250743720244/966978860014091/?type=1 (cdH8NgfE 15/03/02 21:11)
(゚∀゚)<: 該出版社也正式公告此人跟出版社無關了 (cdH8NgfE 15/03/02 21:11)

投稿老是沒下文 家裡蹲 ID:6LrmesjgNo.445回報28推文回應

第一次在這裡發文 哪裡冒犯了還請多多指點m(_ _)m
因為很想做一插畫接案的工作
所以跟家人革命了不少次..(現在持續中)
一直很急著想要拿點成績出來證明給她們看
可是近期投稿3-4家出版社卻始終沒回應
漫無目的的等下去讓我非常的焦急
一直不清楚自己得畫作哪裡出問題了
還是只是時機未到?
希望能得到各位大大的建議~
我的作品集:http://www.pixiv.net/member_illust.php?id=6715829

收起推文
18推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 投到台灣的出版社是我想到你最大的問題 (mCh1UKy2 15/02/02 05:45)
(*´д`)<: 阿阿我目前的處境跟原PO一樣阿 一樣等消息等到很著急 (aiFyohDw 15/02/02 16:47)
(*´д`)<: (接上)好奇原PO多大呢? (aiFyohDw 15/02/02 16:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 你的畫骨架問題不小、皺褶理體感也不好,偏偏沒有辦法靠上色掩蓋掉缺點 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:31)
(゚∀゚)<: 還有你的線條太亂了,亂到光用電腦就看得出來,印刷會超悲劇,要知道市面上或許有些封面看起來線條也很亂,但他們在電腦中看起來是很美的 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:32)
(゚∀゚)<: 感覺上你的圖給人一種很不認真的感覺,這種灑脫的筆觸只有在你已經很強的時候才可以用,不然只是不用心而已 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:34)
(゚∀゚)<: 然後最重要的一點,你的圖沒有辦法吸引到人,整體構圖不突出色感也不好,基本上如果前面兩點都做得到,基本工那些你才可以先放在一邊,這是很現實的世界 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 然後你如果想要去遊戲界更慘,那是基本工至上的世界。目前你大概會覺得你的光影不錯,但那個只是一種錯覺而已 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:39)
(゚∀゚)<: 還有最後跟你說,你如果真的想畫,對自己超有信心,自己打電話問編輯部談會面,我認識很多人都是這樣上擋的 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:40)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果投稿連"已收到,為您建檔"都沒有,那真的是編輯連給你建議都懶,因為跟你一樣的人真的太多了。 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:41)
(゚∀゚)<: 怎樣才知道自己有沒有接小說插畫能力,從以下指標看吧。1.你p站有沒有辦法分數很高 2.你在同人場上可以賣得很好嗎? 3.你1.2都沒有,但你基本工紮實,什麼樣的風格物品構圖背景都可以駕馭 (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:43)
(゚∀゚)<: 1.2.3其中一個有就可以勝任,反之就............ (N.Dq1dRQ 15/02/02 18:43)
(゚∀゚)<: 原PO// 我21歲~ (GuMhLBb2 15/02/02 19:08)
(゚∀゚)<: 故事稿與畫風搭配適不適合也是出版社會考量的 (fkbmYMGY 15/02/03 00:58)
(゚∀゚)<: 臉很重要 必須要在畫的吸引人ㄧ點 (N9gxMiVo 15/02/03 04:21)
(゚∀゚)<: 我覺得N.Dq1dRQ講的1.2.3能力指標還蠻中肯的...對了我曾經幫美編朋友審稿...像原po這種不上不下的真的一大堆回都懶得回...(畫很爛還可以直接跟他說不採用哩 (C2cImSmM 15/02/03 18:11)
(゚∀゚)<: 1.2.3指標真的市面上有接的作者都至少符合一項...加油吧。 (C2cImSmM 15/02/03 18:12)
(゚∀゚)<: 原po用色討喜去年上色也進步不少 但是線條太淩亂整體完成度不高 跟職業繪師比多數的圖讓人覺得只是塗鴉 (nSc/jFuw 15/02/04 07:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 也覺得用色蠻討喜,線調方面完成度就完全不夠...許多地方的斷線會讓人覺得沒畫完 (RncgmPwM 15/02/04 08:46)
(゚∀゚)<: 像是我是3,目前是電玩美術(畫人畫物品畫ui畫背景...) 原po要進電玩界的話,畫功還需加強。 (Mzy2T3no 15/02/04 10:35)
(゚∀゚)<: 縮圖算不錯(顏色&層次感OK),大圖細節處理不足,覺得花多點時間修飾每張圖會比較容易中,對商業稿來說你的完成度不太夠 (1t5.Yx/6 15/02/05 00:27)
(゚∀゚)<: 立體感要加強 (7.aJrtg2 15/02/06 10:27)
(゚∀゚)<: 影子形狀沒跟該有的結構做對應 (7.aJrtg2 15/02/06 10:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 拿最明顯的臉部來說,光這樣從左邊打來 鼻子應該會有陰影 但你結構不熟就逃避了 (7.aJrtg2 15/02/06 10:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 光首PO的縮圖就會有種"很亂"的味道飄出來,點P站進去看大圖更是慘...21應該還在就學?多練圖吧 (KTV7/wB2 15/02/10 23:33)
(*´д`)<: 感謝前面原PO回答 請繼續加油 (aoRHUuMs 15/02/12 21:16)
(゚∀゚)<: 不知原PO還會不會回來看串,線稿方面,要盡量避免一條線有明顯的多次接線痕跡,或是交錯不擦乾淨 (uIu3MZR6 15/02/14 04:51)
(゚∀゚)<: 這些細節不注意都會降低精細度,電腦上覺得還好的地方,印成書封都會變得很明顯(經驗談 (uIu3MZR6 15/02/14 04:52)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:N9/Fne6sNo.446回報16推文

就邊投邊練功吧,另外不要把這工作當正職,小說封面一集大概一萬初投,中間包含,人設一張一千,內頁插圖也是一張一千,封面一張4000~1000,不過8000以上是大間出版社外加你是大手才有機會,小說封面算是許多接外包用來增加瀑光率用的,不建議當正職,除非你有辦法一次接到好幾本小說封面,並且在一個月內賺到你最低需求的生活費

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6推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 之前是邊上班邊接 一集所需要的圖量我就畫了兩個月左右 才賺一萬塊 真的賺不多 按照現在腳步邊練邊投就好 (XxLCofPo 15/02/02 21:02)
(゚∀゚)<: 看前後文是4000~10000吧? No.446是不是少打一個零 商業小說封面低於4000不合理 (YjP0x1Es 15/02/03 18:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 嗯 少打 但我有朋友接四千的 (CWaX8pXs 15/02/05 09:33)
(゚∀゚)<: 四千是下限的新手或小手價吧 除非不用畫背景不然有實力的接四千真的頗低 (0G1HAby2 15/02/05 16:09)
(゚∀゚)<: 四千以下不用背景還說得過去,如果一般封面開四千大概只剩下不入流網小出版社 (cgIgC0pA 15/02/05 18:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 不入流的網小出版社真的很喜歡壓價還想買斷版權有夠扯接案時一定要拒絕 正常出版社只要反應一下都會願意購買授權而非買斷 新手不要被騙 (0G1HAby2 15/02/05 20:55)
(゚∀゚)<: 授權跟買斷差別在哪 (GLm6VnnA 15/02/05 23:17)
(゚∀゚)<: 以我自己的情況,有保留版權的彩稿如做成周邊營利,我可以抽點%。買斷的多會是Q版圖,我合作的出版社只會拿Q版當贈品 (N/.FM83E 15/02/06 12:45)
(゚∀゚)<: 除了抽%外 當初交稿時有稿費嗎?看向上面文章有出版社稿費是抽成有點毛 要是賣不好 稿費也會低於市場行情耶 (7.aJrtg2 15/02/06 13:11)
(゚∀゚)<: 彩稿是指小說封面,交稿後會拿基本稿費。大活動如果有拿彩稿做成周邊販售,依合約能拿到另外抽到的版稅,而且是一次給全部的量,不是賣了多少才給多少 (N/.FM83E 15/02/06 13:58)
(゚∀゚)<: 不過大活動如果出版社弄成打折過的展場價,我抽的%也會從打折過的來算就是XD 這是我的合作一間的情況 (N/.FM83E 15/02/06 14:00)
(゚∀゚)<: 能接電玩業的最好 出版社案子很大一部份優點在曝光度 但稿費相對電玩外包少很多 要靠它維生恐怕有點困難 (zW.5rKfk 15/02/08 13:38)
(゚∀゚)<: 拿人設日系風格有線繪來說 小說行情在一千 但電玩外包開到五千沒問題 不過不管是哪一行不肖廠商還是很多 接之前最好打聽一下價情是否符合行情 (zW.5rKfk 15/02/08 13:43)
(゚∀゚)<: 外包不是只有小說封面這一種 若能夠再多接其它種類型的外包最好 這樣發展也才不會太狹窄 (zW.5rKfk 15/02/08 14:01)
(゚∀゚)<: 授權的話,合約上會怎麼寫呢? (mmjEvJl. 15/02/17 18:46)
(゚∀゚)<: >mmj 經驗是針對授權的項目直接寫"授權or授予" (bew7lbCY 15/02/21 01:41)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:F2BmPvdMNo.450回報推文
> 授權跟買斷差別在哪
授權:圖還是作者的,但是借給別人用。
賣斷(買斷):圖賣給別人,作者喪失擁有權。

http://www.rclaw.com.tw/SwTextDetail.asp?Gid=4048
比較專業的用語可以看這篇,文中的「讓與」就是我們口語說的「賣斷/買斷」,
簽合約會遇到所以還是多認識一點名詞好。

一般來說輕小說封面只要授權就夠不需要到賣斷的程度(其他類型的插畫案我不清楚),
幾千元的封面插畫稿費來說基本上都是授權的價格不是賣斷,
出版社為了行事方便,常常一開始會直接在合約裡面寫成是「讓與 (賣斷/買斷)」,
如果看到類似的字眼可以跟出版社提出:「行情來說這個價格是授權的價格不是賣斷價格」,
我想大部分出版社不想提高稿費都會讓步成授權,以上建議給大家參考。
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:cgUCkNQ.No.451回報1推文

個人是一隻某美術社畜
看了你的作品之後,你的問題非常的多
光線稿就問題很大這在商業來說只是個草稿階段
也就說你是拿草稿來上色。
為什麼呢?上面留言已經幫你點出不少問題
剩下的自己去想
至於你目前的水準想靠插畫接案來為生
很抱歉,你還很年輕要走的路還很長,建議去外面闖一闖兩三年之後再思考。

(゚∀゚)<: 同意,PIXIV有些人用草稿畫到很紅,結果有人有樣學樣,畫商業稿那樣其實不行 (/uSKXw9s 15/02/07 19:59)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:AdOiDwsUNo.454回報15推文

上面有不少人士提供可以參考的意見
不過我認為妳們也把人家批評得太體無完膚

雖然在我看來是還過得去
有些比較練習性質(畫快樂)的圖畫不論
基本上還是可以的
只是有沒有被採用的問題(當然你要批評水準細緻還是什麼的又另外一回事)

日本輕小說的彩稿
不少所謂的大手,畫的水準也只是一般
如果硬要說的話,有幾張原PO有的圖都比他們用心多些

雖然我覺得或許妳們是以自身經驗來批論是用心良苦
不少經驗也的確值得一看
舉個誇張的說法
拿文藝復興水準作品,要印象派的來比肩...這也實在太過了
因為表現語言不同,只是合不合用的問題

以上只是路人的甲的看法,還請包涵

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5推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 附帶一提..原PO作品有很多看起來是練習畫快樂的...這些容易招致批評..建議要給人評論的話不如拿掉,保留精美的幾張就好 (AdOiDwsU 15/02/11 10:18)
(゚∀゚)<: 老話一句請丟上DAFA挑戰世界級 (6wg6PyDw 15/02/11 13:01)
(゚∀゚)<: 大家是為她好才會說,這樣就被說批評的話,那就不好意思就請她繼續活在自己的世界吧 (8u6Nt.Dw 15/02/11 13:18)
(゚∀゚)<: 不要以為美術這行好混 (8u6Nt.Dw 15/02/11 13:19)
(゚∀゚)<: 項你這樣關懷溫暖愛然後造出一個明明沒本事卻自以為跟插畫大手比肩的業界毒瘤會比較好嗎... (MhuBU2A. 15/02/11 14:14)
(゚∀゚)<: 那些畫得一般的大手,大多有你看不見的優點,不是已經有獨一無二的畫風,就是完稿很快,兩樣都沒有還是乖乖接受現實慢慢練的好 (1dGu9YrM 15/02/11 15:00)
(゚∀゚)<: 你覺得過得去,但要不要採用還是出版社來決定,有實際合作經驗的人講的話請別只當"批評"... (6XwlSfPM 15/02/11 16:59)
(゚∀゚)<: 要是你只給他信心但出版社卻不採用,是出版社沒眼光?有些事不是只喊加油就好,更何況原PO鼓起勇氣特地上來問了 (6XwlSfPM 15/02/11 17:02)
(゚∀゚)<: 或許你覺得匿名容易口無遮攔,但有些實話礙於身分不好意思明說,否則何不在自己的網站詢問就好 (6XwlSfPM 15/02/11 17:08)
(゚∀゚)<: 上面的人也說了,你或許覺得日本那些大手也不怎樣,但他要馬整體好要馬光影好要馬畫風吃香要馬高產, (KzfhN2bw 15/02/11 19:31)
(゚∀゚)<: 你的行為就好像是一個藝人不人氣,因為他長的普通又沒才華,你卻硬要說一堆有名藝人長得比他醜一樣,也不想想那些是靠什麼紅的。 (KzfhN2bw 15/02/11 19:31)
(゚∀゚)<: 上面雖然標準嚴了點 但是都是言之有物的建言我覺得不到批評的程度 發文者問業界情況用業界標準來指點再正常不過 (Kz05rLDo 15/02/11 19:44)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果這樣是體無完膚那還不如去巴哈算了,那邊人最喜歡喊大大很棒,可以去那邊賺很多抱抱 (bDMqeUNA 15/02/11 20:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 大家盡量用業界立場看原PO為何沒有被選上,並且告訴他該怎麼走會比較有希望,原PO不會那麼玻璃心好嗎? (bDMqeUNA 15/02/11 20:32)
(゚∀゚)<: 先看原PO接下來有無回應吧 說真的講再多 聽不進去的話也是浪費時間而已 (MaNhxT4U 15/02/11 21:55)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:1ddfoFewNo.456回報16推文

非原PO,但覺得受益良多

雖然跟原PO有點相反,相關經驗的朋友是說我線稿OK但是上色不夠吸引人

同人稿件在朋友介紹下終於也有人詢問
商業部分還是.雖然有接過,不過只是運氣比較好碰到了機會......現實嚴酷...

如果要往這方面努力,還是早點看清楚自己的缺點,早點改進比較好

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6推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 我還不是一樣被人家說爛但是還是在外國站上接了不少委託...一切都是看造化拉~有人不要得話不代表那垃圾別人不會要 (6RdR/Cqc 15/02/14 11:50)
(゚∀゚)<: 6RdR/Cqc是在偏激什麼,上面沒人這樣說原PO作品吧....在這串中了很多箭生氣了? (FJweB1eo 15/02/14 19:02)
(゚∀゚)<: 外國站是很多喜好多元風格的委託人,但是如果打算吃長期飯票,這種等知音人的作法還是不太可行 (pJFbfGYM 15/02/14 20:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 這麼說好了~對於歐美來說風格基本上就已經算是一種作者的STYLE了~你想怎麼幹都沒問題只要你有表達出你的意思 (klAW0ELk 15/02/15 10:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 而亞洲特別是台灣就一定非要要求你要這樣子那樣子的事情一堆 (klAW0ELk 15/02/15 10:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 而且說真的打算吃長期飯票就不能放上國外等人委託上門??你有沒有看過國外有多少管道可以賺啊? (klAW0ELk 15/02/15 10:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 新興的PATREON~舊式的各大圖站~KICKSTARTER專案~能賺的地方特多的~只要你夠牛逼不怕你沒錢賺誰說放國外就只能守株待兔? (klAW0ELk 15/02/15 10:38)
(゚∀゚)<: >FJweB1eo 老實說我根本沒看上面~我只是想說得是台灣很多人是人限制了自己~放眼世界上才是硬道理 (klAW0ELk 15/02/15 10:46)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果你這樣想我也不能阻止你,不過我只能說這條路要走的比較吃力而已 (1//16Pcc 15/02/15 19:59)
(゚∀゚)<: 不過說實話我覺得原Po的圖在歐美也不是會受歡迎的型就是了..... (fBoS4U4U 15/02/16 17:05)
(゚∀゚)<: 我是6RdR/Cqc,抱歉讓你不快,但原po的問題是"在出版社以輕小風格接案",上面意見基礎上都是針對出版社選稿方向,畢竟現況是人挑你而不是你挑人。 (qFQbXBcI 15/02/16 17:53)
(゚∀゚)<: 要用畫到用特疏風格進出版社對原po而言明顯是條更遠的路(並且目前看來原po畫風也屬於輕小風格) (qFQbXBcI 15/02/16 17:53)
(゚∀゚)<: 所以我才再說是人在限制人自己~放眼世界去看你看到多少圖站上只有輕小說風格的圖?? (WFqZPsQU 15/02/17 07:40)
(゚∀゚)<: 在台灣你走這路就難走了~偏偏你還選個更難找更飽和的路線~這不是擺明事半功倍嗎?? (WFqZPsQU 15/02/17 07:40)
(゚∀゚)<: 人挑你你挑人是互相的拉~出版社的思考都是給你機會是施捨給你的啦~除非你出名到某種程度不然你只不過是可以丟得棋子而已 (WFqZPsQU 15/02/17 07:42)
(゚∀゚)<: 真要走這種SOHO或者是靠畫圖賺點錢的~我都直接推薦你去世界上的圖站多看看多走走~不會有壞處的 (WFqZPsQU 15/02/17 07:43)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:xk5.2tUoNo.457回報3推文

看了不少人的落落長...
唔...
>>造出一個明明沒本事卻自以為跟插畫大手比肩的業界毒瘤
坦白說就算有人變成上面所述的
也不會被人採用...這有什麼差??

很多人看到反面(或說不同)意見,就會興奮得舉正論大旗駁斥
實在是力氣太多
不過我看原po大概也不太敢留什麼誠實的言了
最多謝謝指教之類的廢話而已
多說話也只有繼續被批評或被指教的份而已

講客觀點,我也想看到給建言的高手
願意的話可以不吝分享自己的作品,讓向學者觀摩學習
不然光是看到建議而閉門造車,被指教大概也是容易發生
當然,我寫這樣可能會被人見縫插針,扭曲想法
那就一笑置之吧...

(゚∀゚)<: 硬把自己的作品貼出來要原PO學才不妥吧...上面提點的其實都還蠻表面的,要如何進步完全是看原PO自己努力 (XlxNkh7Y 15/02/15 02:44)
(゚∀゚)<: 不太理解你要別人貼出自己作品的用意,看作品來衡量說話的分量?接過商業不等於很強,上面的指點都可能是他們自己的經驗談 (XlxNkh7Y 15/02/15 02:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 或者你覺得上面有哪些話是刻意誤導他人、錯誤的方法? (XlxNkh7Y 15/02/15 02:50)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:dIqccQEYNo.458回報31推文

上色不要求達到這水準
但線稿的部份請達到這水準

做個結論好了
大家的經驗談應該說該說的都說了
剩下就看原PO是否玻璃心
才21歲要走的路還有好長好長一段
真的很不建議一開始就蹲在家裡(除非家裡有錢)

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21推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 這水準太高了,市面上很多小說封面都沒到這等級啊 (TLSGgHKg 15/02/15 10:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 臉可愛色掉甜而已 它屁股透視壞掉了 (lq.MVIbc 15/02/15 10:59)
(゚∀゚)<: 因為他刻意凸顯屁股所以才會壞掉~不過這種通常就是明知構圖如此硬要玩的結果... (klAW0ELk 15/02/15 12:00)
(゚∀゚)<: 我看過不少老外圖如果要突顯屁股是直接特寫的...這種還算含蓄了 (klAW0ELk 15/02/15 12:00)
(゚∀゚)<: 這舉例我覺得很中肯,只要"線稿"到這種水準應該就不怕沒工作(不見得是小說封面),原po也說上色之類的不要求啊 (EyElqYdU 15/02/15 16:44)
(|||゚д゚)<: 那個...我不是要各位挑這張圖的有得沒的而是要給原PO一個"乾淨利落的線稿"目標啊... (dIqccQEY 15/02/15 17:57)
(゚∀゚)<: 因為這張的整體水準太高了 所以很容易模糊焦點 (ACH9C5j2 15/02/15 18:40)
(゚∀゚)<: 屁股線根本位置錯誤,但是以職業水準來說沒問題了,實在想告訴這畫者改掉屁股不然可惜 (1//16Pcc 15/02/15 19:58)
(゚∀゚)<: 路不是只有一條,不管乾靜還是不乾淨都是風格,重點是完成度要夠高or夠特色也行。你看安倍吉俊的線稿哪裡乾靜? (3gE0q0UA 15/02/15 22:23)
(゚∀゚)<: 這張上色其實沒怎樣,連環境光都沒就只是什麼顏色就塗什麼顏色,加上最安全的白背景,只能說他很熟練 (3gE0q0UA 15/02/15 22:26)
(゚∀゚)<: 3gE就算認為這張上色不怎麼樣 但這張線條跟用色的確有職業水準 當小說封面賣也一定是平均中上的價碼 (ACH9C5j2 15/02/15 22:49)
(゚∀゚)<: 這張是dIqccQEY的作品嗎...那畫得還真可愛...這樣給大家看就很有說服力了... (u7Q5T1wY 15/02/16 01:29)
(|||゚д゚)<: 不不!! 這不是我的圖,這只是網路上找來的是給原PO一個"商業線稿"目標要而我的圖都在公司 (.7VRdInA 15/02/16 02:54)
(´_ゝ`)<: 各位大師各有所長,上色的事情就不用太爭論,這張主要用意在"商業線稿" 給原PO定個目標用 (.7VRdInA 15/02/16 03:00)
(゚∀゚)<: 7VRdInA 下班後多產點圖啦 擁有自己的作品很重要 下班都不進修嗎.... (k/nf/wyY 15/02/16 09:58)
(´・ω・`)<: 下班已經快半夜了....沒這力氣去產圖.....回到小屋內能看的ニコ就不錯了...... (.7VRdInA 15/02/16 13:51)
(゚∀゚)<: 怪了 我就有辦法 (MLwlUe7. 15/02/16 16:52)
(;´д`)<: 每個人體力肝力都不同啊⋯⋯ (slIT1jHs 15/02/16 18:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 人家不是你,有什麼怪的 (wbuKzeJk 15/02/16 19:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 去找個可以準時下班的公司吧....美術也很需要時間進修產自己圖的 (OucWklkE 15/02/17 13:51)
(゚∀゚)<: 畢竟業界很注重實力 (USWB/DsI 15/02/17 16:20)
(゚∀゚)<: 這張就算骨架有問題還是會有高價碼der~~而且這種就是有吸引人的元素 (xoO0O4C6 15/02/17 20:02)
(゚∀゚)<: 要走商業化 務必先抓到最好看的臉部比例 看這張骨架有點問題 上色也只有60分 但臉部風格吸引人 圖的完成度也不錯 商業化其中一個重點是 你不一定要很強 但至少在外行人眼裡要看起來很強 (7HrBLmEM 15/02/18 10:08)
(゚∀゚)<: 先被外行人吸引的要素是啥?就臉跟色調 看巴哈達人裡 有些真的沒很強 但臉很可愛 gp就被灌爆了 (7HrBLmEM 15/02/18 10:09)
(゚∀゚)<: 我自己畫了快10年同人+各國奇奇怪怪商業稿的經驗 其實臉蛋和整張圖的完成度最重要 至於骨架別到畸形的程度都不會被挑 (FX7EumzU 15/02/18 11:41)
(゚∀゚)<: 所謂的完成度就是別讓人覺得有地方沒完稿 細節不夠 大概這樣 (FX7EumzU 15/02/18 11:42)
(゚∀゚)<: 還有選色要舒服 清爽 漂亮 最近顏色濃厚的厚塗反而不像以前那麼受歡迎 (FX7EumzU 15/02/18 11:44)
(゚∀゚)<: pixiv算是很好的指標 哪種上色受歡迎 流行 就會一堆人用 自己的上色也要依照市場做微調 懂得進步 才不會被淘汰 (FX7EumzU 15/02/18 11:46)
(゚∀゚)<: 骨架不要差得太誇張就可以,畢竟客群大部分都是外行人,看起來亮眼最重要 (BBiTfztI 15/02/18 14:23)
(゚∀゚)<: 大暮維人就有很多骨架都不太正確......但是沒人會挑它毛病 (E1RAiN92 15/02/18 20:14)
(゚∀゚)<: 大暮已經算好了 商業稿一堆比他還糟糕的 只是選色 臉蛋漂亮沒被挑剔太多 (4cVKDL96 15/02/19 22:59)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:b2MA49AANo.459回報53推文

(抱歉插嘴
看了上面大家對原PO的忠告提議,我也好想放自己的圖上來聽聽意見...本身是做了4年的遊戲美術,基本功雖然還算可以,但感覺圖沒法吸引到人,自己也不知道什麼原因...越畫越迷茫

收起推文
43推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 放上來再說吧 沒看到圖別人也給不了什麼意見 當然偏激的意見是有但多數都滿理性的 (zGbnI4lA 15/02/22 06:50)
(つд⊂)<: id=659764 那我就放一下好了,原PO如果不喜歡請說我會刪掉的 (b2MA49AA 15/02/22 11:35)
(゚∀゚)<: 第一眼看下去是用色過時,然後環境光沒有掌握好,建議去研究一下色彩學色溫那些,陰影並不是用同樣的色系塗上去就好。 (d9xQdnd2 15/02/22 16:26)
(゚∀゚)<: 立體感概念不夠,你目前的能力只停在單一物品立體感,但整體影響光影的概念幾乎是0 (d9xQdnd2 15/02/22 16:27)
(゚∀゚)<: 描線和骨架可、上單一物品能力也可,所以當美術是非常可以的,但如果要顯現各人魅力,那必須抓住第一眼才行。 (d9xQdnd2 15/02/22 16:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 配色怪怪的,乍看只有『塔の中の乙女』那張顏色搭配OK。然後感覺臉沒甚麼特色...... (lRUPk1CE 15/02/22 23:17)
(゚∀゚)<: 我比較好奇是你公司同事不能給你意見嗎?這裡人多 專業不一 在公司找個實力好的同事問更準確一點 (nlBo4phE 15/02/23 00:34)
|д`)<: 謝謝d9xQdnd2的賜教...我會好好研究的 (rQDBBHyY 15/02/23 01:04)
|д`)<: lRUPk1CE<<塔の中の乙女的確是我目前最高分數的圖,然後臉沒甚麼特色這...(つд⊂) (rQDBBHyY 15/02/23 01:09)
|д`)<: nlBo4phE<<...其實看了上面說配色不行的評價,我都不好意思說自己是公司裡上色比較好的了... (rQDBBHyY 15/02/23 01:17)
(゚∀゚)<: 與其在匿名版問 還不如在臉書上敲大大來問 程度低的不是不能給意見 但他們往往糾結在骨架歪了之類地方 程度高看的問題會更深一層 像構圖 設計問題等等 (bTE9adIg 15/02/23 10:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 而且匿名版有不少人是鍵盤大師 上面竟然有人說大幕維人骨架差 就可見一斑了 找個可信度高的人問吧 (bTE9adIg 15/02/23 10:50)
(゚∀゚)<: 但這編給的建議還是非常中肯啊,FB那邊反而問不到什麼中肯的意見,一堆大師講得也很抽象或者他也懶的講實話得罪人... (SBk26Y5M 15/02/23 12:43)
(゚∀゚)<: 程度低的不是不能給意見 但他們往往糾結在骨架歪了之類地方 (bTE9adIg 15/02/23 16:48)
(゚∀゚)<: bTE9adIg相反吧,有底子的人才會在意骨架,外行哪看得懂骨架有沒有歪啊。 (.KzcpABM 15/02/23 16:59)
(゚∀゚)<: 會在意骨架的:懂一點的,還有頂尖高手。 外行跟普通厲害的不太在意 (SBk26Y5M 15/02/23 18:41)
(゚∀゚)<: 我認為構圖 視覺導引安排 要放在骨架問題之前 有人說大幕維人骨架崩了 拜託 他是在熟知骨架概念後 為了動態感而做出的變形好嗎?這也就是我後來都不在k島發圖了 島民只在乎骨架 (kVnoJQCQ 15/02/23 19:22)
(゚∀゚)<: 我沒看到有人說他骨架崩,只有人說他不太正確,他只是強調只要整體美不會有人在意變型吧?樓上是受到什麼刺激? (SBk26Y5M 15/02/23 19:49)
(゚∀゚)<: 樓樓上把別串的怒火拿來這裡發洩嗎? (fS/SnWYU 15/02/23 20:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 姿勢構圖用色都很過時,總覺得是20年前流行的畫風......線稿不要一味的用淺咖啡色,看起來讓整體變得更老派了 (SM9Md1J6 15/02/23 21:35)
(゚∀゚)<: 問題太多了實在不知道從何說起,骨架真的只是小問題,你應該先去研究構圖技巧跟上色,看一些攝影技巧的書也會對構圖有幫助 (SM9Md1J6 15/02/23 21:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果你要繼續這種風格,就要想辦法讓自己的圖風變得像庫洛魔法使那麼柔軟才適合,不然這種不上不下的風格.....只能給你一句「你過時了」。 (SM9Md1J6 15/02/23 21:39)
(゚∀゚)<: 畫說得比較重比較不中聽,不過你現在欠缺的就是能給你當頭棒喝的人吧?...... (SM9Md1J6 15/02/23 21:40)
(゚∀゚)<: http://p1.i.ntere.st/fa6e6f1165ae404202b6057e45d82c6c_480.jpg 丟個範例圖,一樣是老派畫風但就是很美 (SM9Md1J6 15/02/23 21:43)
(゚∀゚)<: 很好奇一問,說過時的人,難道每個人都要萌系臉,日系上色才叫入流? (XoFlkaaI 15/02/23 22:34)
(。◕∀◕。)<: 想看SM9Md1J6大大畫的圖 (期待貌) (KHVYkvwA 15/02/23 22:40)
(゚∀゚)<: 過時是一種整體感和著重點的不同。那種感覺就像是某個時代的流行。 (1QE0TmUU 15/02/23 23:31)
(゚∀゚)<: 我看原PO的圖確實朝萌系走比較快吧,他的圖哪裏有像要走寫實風? (k.LappQk 15/02/24 00:07)
(゚∀゚)<: 只是就算要走萌系,原PO的配色還是不及格。日系雖然都色彩明亮,不過原PO的感覺是每個顏色都太獨立了,沒有整體感 (k.LappQk 15/02/24 00:10)
(゚∀゚)<: 同樣都是畫紅色也不見得只有大紅才能表現紅色,上色的時候多用點色相/飽和度微調一下 (k.LappQk 15/02/24 00:10)
(゚∀゚)<: 多找一點妳喜歡的風格的圖,然後去研究他們怎麼用色 (k.LappQk 15/02/24 00:11)
(゚∀゚)<: 每個時代流行的畫法不一樣,觀眾的喜好也不一樣,走商業路線的朝觀眾會喜歡的風格努力,有什麼疑問嗎? (zqcEPqw. 15/02/24 11:49)
(゚∀゚)<: 上面幾個有沒有想過這種風格為什麼會被說過時?就是因為這種風格在現在人眼中已經沒有亮眼的要素了,堅持繼續這種畫風只是閉門造車, (zqcEPqw. 15/02/24 11:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 除非No.459能靠這種畫風闖出一片天,但現在看來就是沒有,他才會上板來問啊 (zqcEPqw. 15/02/24 11:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 先想好你想吸引哪種族群的注意力再去下功夫吧,遊戲美術的話,日系反而是非主流吧(要看遊戲類行) (zqcEPqw. 15/02/24 11:54)
(゚∀゚)<: *類型 錯字抱歉 (zqcEPqw. 15/02/24 11:54)
|д゚)<: ...我是No.459...說起來我公司上司是個討厭萌系喜歡鳥O明那類的漢,老是丟給我們的參考資料就是DRAGON QUEST... (iI0UX846 15/02/24 12:28)
|д゚)<: 而UI風格就是偏80年代美風...雖然我是拒絕的,但不順他意的圖就得永遠改下去 (iI0UX846 15/02/24 12:32)
|д゚)<: 看了大家的意見我大概明白發生什麼事了...感謝各位指教 (iI0UX846 15/02/24 12:35)
(゚∀゚)<: 我覺得你的選色很不舒服 都是些比較刺眼的顏色 打開就想馬上關掉了....OTZ (MU6gmzyA 15/02/25 02:39)
(゚∀゚)<: 再來層次感太弱 圖看起來缺乏細節 該暗的地方不夠暗 以及光源沒掌握好 什麼都看起來亮亮的 (MU6gmzyA 15/02/25 02:41)
(゚∀゚)<: 再來臉的畫風....老實講你的大頭像畫風還比較耐看 建議眼睛的畫法做些調整 主要是目前大家喜歡的主流畫法不是這樣 (MU6gmzyA 15/02/25 02:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 大家目前喜歡的眼睛畫法都是偏像亮點小 而且小巧精細 不會加太多的眼睫毛|||b (MU6gmzyA 15/02/25 02:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 這樣一改還是459的畫?根本像某些人直抄大師如某監督才是正解 (XwsiKl52 15/02/25 11:23)
(゚∀゚)<: 建議改用色可以理解,但眼睫毛是個人喜好吧,不是有人說臉沒特色?這也是特色啊? (XwsiKl52 15/02/25 11:26)
(゚∀゚)<: 看原PO的回覆,看樣子不是他本身的問題,而是老闆喜好的問題了.....這個很難解 (iZR60t3U 15/02/25 13:51)
(゚∀゚)<: 學LL的畫風本身就不是特色了吧 (IoHyBmnM 15/02/25 16:27)
(゚∀゚)<: 本來想紅就是要照市場需求做一點調整 要馬堅持自己的特色期望大家接受 要馬改善問題往前走 (IoHyBmnM 15/02/25 16:30)
(゚∀゚)<: LL的畫風是不建議完全學 畢竟這不是很受歡迎的畫風……有比它更多更好的選擇 (IoHyBmnM 15/02/25 16:32)
(゚∀゚)<: 而且真正強的畫師是會懂得留著自己需要的部分 不需要的就是淘汰 進步 才能讓實力一直維持在一定的高度 (IoHyBmnM 15/02/25 16:35)
(゚∀゚)<: 什麼該留 什麼不該留 原po你自己看看pixiv的排行榜應該很清楚 (IoHyBmnM 15/02/25 16:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 459基本工有了,覺得細緻度可以加強,然後分出重點和非重點,現在你每張圖都有基本完成度,但是再上去就沒有了 (PEcM2pXY 15/02/25 22:01)
(゚∀゚)<: 顏色怎麼上可以慢慢摸索,先試試把你的完稿當作只有70%,繼續強化細節,但記得只強化畫面重點部份,不然會像現在一樣整張畫滿了卻很平 (PEcM2pXY 15/02/25 22:03)
回應b2MA49AA 家裡蹲 ID:Gz/dy9GENo.461回報7推文

樓上推文都說的算是瞞中懇的XD
不過b2MA49AA都特地來求教了(要來匿名版揭示身分真的要很有勇氣XD")
我也就雞婆幫忙建議一下

我是覺得b2MA49AA的(以下暫稱Sha桑)的基本功、設計能力、構圖都不賴XD
只是有些地方需要細心一點(是細心觀察的意味)

我示範修改的這張,基本沒動什麼大輪廓,只是在細節的部分做調整
(不敢說這樣一定才是正解,總之可以參考看看這個方向)
我會建議眼睛光點、皮膚光點之類的 以更細小的方式呈現,可能會看起來更細膩
鼻子也建議存在感再低一點

然後其他像id=48734845的情人節真姬,跟下一張粉紅色的id=48420121

建議是在表現女性的豐腴之時,也不忘纖細柔美的感覺,id=48420121那張其實有點快接近粗勇了,這在萌點上容易扣分

真姬這個構圖其實很吃香,大部分繪師會畫的很有色氣,讓人想推倒,更何況你還露了屁股!照理來講應該是擊中心臟的啊
可是這張就讓人沒什麼特別的感覺XD(我想這也是你來詢問的原因之一吧,想要吸引人)
站在理論上給你的建議就是,身體比例讓人覺得粗勇,然後手畫的偏粗、手掌偏大,女生還是需要纖纖玉指才行

大抵而言 就是其實沒有畫的不好,但"可以畫的更好看~!"

練習的方向我會建議多觀察其他優秀的女體繪畫
畫的不崩已經是基本了,不要覺得畫的不崩就夠了,請再抱著空杯的心情,去想辦法讓你的身體比例,能夠畫得更好看! 更吸引人!
有時後吸引人不是要你賣肉,而是當你重點都畫對了,女體OK 臉OK~構圖OK 意境OK~ 就會吸引人
你現在的狀況有點類似,圖畫是畫出來了,可是有些萌要素的重點沒有栽下去思考,你可能要更投入在享受萌這件事情上

有時候我們看一張圖很普通,只是色塊上色,可殊不知那個臉比例身體比例都很需要時間推敲的
我再說一次我說的比例不是要你"畫正確",而是找出"最好看"的比例
當然這最好看沒有唯一解,有redjuice那種骨感的 也有佐伯俊那種肉感的,看你喜歡什麼自己去摸索吧

然後臉部的表現也是~ 多看多觀察多嘗試吧XD
共勉之~

(゚∀゚)<: 459的畫法有些用得不太好,尤其是反光部分不是加了就會有立體感的 (CpAKIV6g 15/02/24 16:42)
(゚∀゚)<: 立體感方面,459會出現把線稿關掉的話,光靠顏色看不出物體裡外營造的問題,亮都一樣亮暗也一樣暗 (CpAKIV6g 15/02/24 16:47)
|д゚)<: 謝謝你寫得這麼詳細,揭示身分是有點怕不過得到這麼多從沒聽過的意見也是值了,雖然痛痛的 (iI0UX846 15/02/24 17:40)
(゚∀゚)<: 我也有部分想給459建議,也用48734845來示範,請見諒>< 比較偏厚塗 (CpAKIV6g 15/02/24 20:27)
(゚∀゚)<: http://i.imgur.com/kQm24kp.png 如剛剛所說的,反光並非一直加就會有立體感,加得不適當反而會更平面,袖子部分也希望你參考看看有什麼差異 (CpAKIV6g 15/02/24 20:30)
|д゚)<: 漂亮很多耶...其實很想和上面幾位交個畫友(沒人要 (iI0UX846 15/02/24 20:35)
(゚∀゚)<: 推id=340139的圖,用色乾淨,用色層次不多但亮暗面很清晰 (CpAKIV6g 15/02/24 20:35)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:LSa1aQ9UNo.462回報354推文

抱歉原PO離題了XD
這邊實在很想幫助Sha桑,
因為我同樣難得進入了繪圖相關行業
老闆卻很守舊,畫圖都只能自救XD
這邊給你分享一些一目了然的差別
面相上我自己覺得太因喜好而異
這邊給你另一個建議
下面那張圖是今天RANKING抓的一張小鳥
你可以明顯的看到兩邊有什麼差別??
用字面明確的說就是「資訊量不夠」
雖然兩者看來材質不同
但是你可以看到質感上壓到性的差別
你是不是畫一件衣服,都沒有看實物在畫呢?
可能你覺得衣服都是創作,不需要看實物
但是沒有看過實物畫的東西,就會失真
資訊量不夠,就會沒有質感
沒有質感的服裝,臉再好看,
吸引力都會大打折扣
何況你的圖賣點就是可愛的女生穿可愛的衣服
所以我建議你再下心思在這方面,
每一件衣服都先參考相似的實物
事實上我更建議你練素描,
有練沒有練真的差很多
但是作為第一步我認為可以在衣紋方面仿真
因為這個地方比較容易有成就感
有了成就感,就能順利進步下去。
文長抱歉,希望對你有幫助!

收起推文
218推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 順便補充,你可以看見RANKING那些繪師,臉不一定是很討喜的風格,但是在質感方面大多很到位 (LSa1aQ9U 15/02/25 23:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 噴槍真的不能太常用......噴得太過頭整個質感都跑掉了 (eZFND0/Q 15/02/26 01:31)
(゚∀゚)<: 噴槍不是不能用,而是不能「只用」,要用waterco暈開,也要改變各種參數 (JyQ3dFzY 15/02/26 10:05)
(゚∀゚)<: 要只用也是可以,但不能直接用,要用選取範圍那種東西輔助,現在的審美和10年前有個差異是,10年前喜歡柔美,現在喜歡利落 (BaNy.IDo 15/02/26 16:08)
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