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745: アイドルのAVデビュー (0)655: 第一次繪圖和看法 (2)
716: 又見盜圖 (0)653: 找尋能夠幫忙做日文溝通的紳士~ (1)
711: 徵求有意願的夥伴承接專案case (0)649: 圖像授權問題想請教大家>< (0)
705: https://skima.jp/request/search (0)644: 這裡有人接過手遊UI介面的案子嗎? (0)
704: 網站設計的菜鳥問題 (2)643: 請問有人接過這公司嗎? (0)
702: 2D動畫製作報價 (1)642: 最近這種的網站感覺挺常見 (0)
695: 開了一個接案 (1)638: 請問soho的各位是怎麼辦信用卡的? (2)
693: 最近想投稿出版社封面插畫 (1)619: https://illustbuy.com/ (6)
677: 請問大家有看過這間嗎? (1)551: 委託製作3D人物模型,求報價 (1)
661: [詢價]英文試題券插圖 (2)378: 請問...如果想接小說封面插畫的工作該怎麼入門才好呢?? (7)

島民好 家裡蹲 ID:.9NiCUQINo.515回報5推文回應

島民好
小弟肖想在家接外包過活很久了
可是又不是強到有人自動會找上門來的等級
實在完全不知道從哪邊開始著手
是在同人場繼續賣就好?
還是要去經營粉絲團或噗浪之類得很重要嗎
請島民打打解惑 拜託了 歐捏該希媽死

|∀゚)<: 先給島民們打個廣告吧 (ZWaEYBGM 15/04/08 00:44)
(゚∀゚)<: 多認識一些人然後多曝光你的作品吧~ (/YEKTMDU 15/04/08 00:53)
(`・ω・)<: id=1571706 知道自己畫技不足 只希望不要全部變成評圖串這樣.. (EaGlumcI 15/04/08 12:38)
(゚∀゚)<: 作品不曝光,哪來的人找上門? 粉絲團、P網都跟同人場賣本是一樣的道理,增加曝光率,這不是強不強的問題,很強但不經營照樣沒人找 (c3qmjRGs 15/04/08 15:15)
(゚∀゚)<: 沒人找上門你就自己找上去啊。 不想到處敲門推銷自己,最最最起碼要開個店面(粉絲團或...隨便)讓人知道你在做這個,不然路人來來去去誰會注意到? (1xVTpn0o 15/04/09 12:29)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:owK9TPK.No.516回報2推文

之前遇到過一個人說想接外包過活
然後他說都沒工作
也不願意畫不是工作的的東西
結果可想而知..

我是自己要先弄一些東西去打知名度
最快的方法大概就是做作品
自己一個人不會的話
就找人合作,不管怎樣都先弄些東西出來
出個畫集什麼的

然後很重要的一點:
不要想著一開始就有人給你錢
你沒名氣沒實力的時候
請自己想辦法養活你自己
不然就會像我上面說的狀況
整天等工作然後一直打混

自己在沒工作的時候也要自己想辦法生出工作
沒有人會想投資一個沒人氣的作者的

不過我靠作品的現在收入還不到一個月20k
偶爾才會有個可以賣的到錢的產品
然後中間會有一大段時間弄出的作品都石沉大海
造成我要自己兼職去討生活
所以以上經驗請參考一下就好

(゚∀゚)<: 態度務實給推,沒人發案也要自己生案很重要。養成創作習慣和速度,也為自己拓展各種可能性。 (1xVTpn0o 15/04/09 12:19)
(゚∀゚)<: 靠SOHO吃飯就是需要這種積極&柔軟心態,只會守株待案是不會有什麼發展的,在創作可以養活自己之前兼職討生活才是務實判斷。 (1xVTpn0o 15/04/09 12:25)

對岸外包 家裡蹲 ID:rhkp6D1sNo.481回報14推文回應

最近打算在空閒時接些外包幫補一下生活費
日本的申請了mugen up沒回音 crowdgate快15天也是沒下文
反而意外地接到些對岸的外包(對岸的同人+外包網站)

目前手上有兩個遊戲的包 都是要我自己開價
因為新人不懂價就看著外包網的價錢定了 (大多1000~2000 NT)
現在一個遊戲要求附圖的畫風+完成度 立繪一張1600
另一個手機遊戲 立繪1400 連場景CG 3200 Q版 400

這樣的價錢好像太低…?OTL 可是都報價完成了
版上有前輩有接過對岸的包嗎?
想詳細一下大概的價錢怎樣定比較好,下次可以用作參考OTL

收起推文
4推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 太低太低了 拒絕吧 (l6Fu3c3s 15/03/28 13:06)
(゚∀゚)<: 標準打壞行情價 (l6Fu3c3s 15/03/28 13:07)
・゚(ノд`゚)<: >l6Fu3c3s 抱歉因為網上沒有遊戲立繪的價錢參考 所以就看了該外包網的價錢來定 (rhkp6D1s 15/03/28 13:18)
・゚(ノд`゚)<: 而且在報價之後對方才說會拿來做週邊+要畫4000像素的圖 打算一下給線稿對方看時順便說改價錢 (rhkp6D1s 15/03/28 13:19)
・゚(ノд`゚)<: 但是不清楚價位所以想說上來問問 現在進度是對方說在準備電子合同但還沒簽 這時候加價會不會有問題orz (rhkp6D1s 15/03/28 13:20)
(´・ω)<: 另外會問對岸的原因是 他們公司有非外包上班的插圖職 可是大概24~30k 所以想問一下對岸的價錢比較低是不是正常 (rhkp6D1s 15/03/28 13:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 先談好價錢再畫,大圖還包周邊授權這價低的太誇張 (L5nHOgkQ 15/03/28 13:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 你立繪開價的兩倍都還嫌太少 評估一下吧..... (l6Fu3c3s 15/03/28 14:20)
(*´∀`)<: 謝謝各位的意見!!!! 鼓起勇氣去要求一張6000 對方考慮?了一小時左右說只要畫稿能過就會給 (rhkp6D1s 15/03/28 16:06)
(*´∀`)<: 雖然相對的要滿足要求這項可能要修稿(掩面) 不過還是感謝出意見的前輩! (rhkp6D1s 15/03/28 16:07)
(゚∀゚)<: 畫稿能過就會給....意思是如果沒過你就做白工,或者只能接受1600的價嗎? (L5nHOgkQ 15/03/28 17:52)
(*´ω`*)<: >L5nHOgkQ 好像是畫的時候一直拍圖給他確認方向(可打水印) 主要是需要原創+精細度能符合 (rhkp6D1s 15/03/28 18:27)
(゚∀゚)<: 原來的報價真的太恐怖啦... 請為整個圈子的行情著想qq (89ACYYm6 15/03/29 22:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 原來的報價是同人的親友價吧打打ORZ (4ZQ8qyj. 15/04/05 13:41)
有 5 篇回應被省略。檢視
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:ArDam6NANo.503回報1推文

這個案應該收精華,放到FAQ裡作警世文啊……
以下是我個人看法。(未必符合台灣國情)

修改次數問題︰
合約有沒有訂明次數?(怕是沒有,所以略過)
有沒有訂明完工天數?(如果有就用這點跟他盧,說包含討論時間,這工作應在X天內完結,請貴組織在X-Y(留點時間給你修)天內標明所有修改地方,X天一到,交圖付款。(語氣請自行修改,我的合約原文是英文)

你問的問題︰
1︰絕對有。只要沒買斷(你合約沒寫「客戶已買斷作品,作者只保有著作權),你可以拿它來作任何事,甚至很缺德地把這個設計賣給別的商家也不違法。

2︰修圖加錢通常是總價的30%,限次數且階段性(非商業客通常只准修兩次),客戶審批過姿態後就沒權改骨架,完成上色後就只准微調顏色。
你合約已寫明這圖一張六千了嗎?
(順帶一提,我對你的定價沒意見,相信慢慢你會調整得符合你所提供的服務水平。)

3︰這問題從一開始就不應存在。你的作品集應完善得足以反映所有技能。(作品集裡應包括一定程度的姿態演示)
如果你自問畫得跟作品集的品質一樣,那你可以跟客戶說明。因為客戶是看了你作品集才跟你簽約的,在意大利餐廳點滷肉飯並不合理。

========
稍稍針對第三點分享個人經驗︰
曾經接過一個簡單人像繪圖工作,為了它我挑出能反映該工作品質的作品給客戶做樣版。
完工後客戶不滿意,因為他不知怎樣咕狗到我的個人網站,並指著一些完成度較高的圖說「你給我的圖不夠好,都不是這檔次」。
我只能回「我從來沒有把那些圖交給你作樣版,你付的那個價錢就是會得到相同的東西。如果想要另一個檔次,要不要加錢?」
客戶硬凹失敗。

檢討點︰
1:如果我沒有針對那工作另開樣版,而是把完整的作品集交給客戶看。
這會不會令客戶產生錯誤期望?萬一真的這樣做了,我將沒有任何理由,只能乖乖地用低價賣高級貨。

2︰客戶另一個生氣點是我太快交圖,而合約寫著完工時間會在七工作天內。他覺得我沒有花足七天在他的圖上,他很吃虧。
這點挺莫明其妙的……順帶一提,個人準則是職業繪師應能在四小時內完成no.481附圖。(從線稿到上色完成。不包括設計,因為設計能在吃飯洗澡時想)

(゚∀゚)<: 謝分享! (Ik6hdV9c 15/04/05 21:28)
無標題 原po ID:tkhbSu0INo.504回報38推文

感謝大家回覆,對方放置到我主動去問才說不合作
然後把圖報告在對岸的外包群還被嫌水桶腰 2000一張也不收
感覺無力感和崩潰感滿強的XD 可能我真的實力不足吧
雖然想再接外包賺外快幫忙家裡但有點陰影了
不能畫自己喜歡的還要一直被打臉,好沒成就感呀w
附圖有打水印的是最終修改版本 半身的是試稿 評圖很準的男友說試稿比較好看
這次的流程大概是
1.對方給出設定文檔 畫出角色設定作試稿 因為設定文檔是比較豪爽的女生(會騷擾男主)所以畫得比較有自信的感覺
2.試稿通過 要求畫出完整人物 稿費方面要我自由出價 (也就是第一篇稿費太低的原因) 要求修改帽子
3.畫完全身線稿 認為普通站立太不吸引男性 要改下半身 但保留上半身 改完動作對方確認可以上色
4.上色進行中同時繼續改下半身 臉容要求模仿約會大作戰的畫風不然不夠萌 表情也更改為現在這個
5.上色完成80% 要求改下半身+腰物件位置
6.上色完稿 睡覺起來看到又要改下半身
>>No.503
>合約有沒有訂明次數?
合約本來一直說要簽 後來一直說你畫完這張確認了質量可以簽下整系列的圖
>有沒有訂明完工天數?
對方又是要我開工期 三天太快一星期太久 最後是四天
但來回修改已經五天了
我也有用工期說過 一直修會畫不完
但對方一直強調 商稿要畫到完美 他們也不想拖工期
有關第三點 我有畫過試稿也有給P站內的對方參考過
我相信我畫給他的應該比這些都精細了 應該有到開串圖的精度吧
速度方面我看大小?
這串其他的附圖大概半到一小時一張 (不到1000像素)
試稿的大概三到四小時 (1500*1500)
而一直改的這張不一直被改大概是2天左右吧 (4000*6000)

收起推文
28推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 試稿比較好看,但臉比較不討喜。不過這上色上線的俐落度你不說還真不覺得是同一個人,你是不是不擅長大圖繪製? (s4DyVcNM 15/04/01 13:40)
(つд⊂)<: 臉也是照對方給的參考圖畫,大概沒抓到重點所以很怪。大圖繪製因為舊電腦很會當,所以開1000像素以下畫了四五年,另外大圖覺得要精細就會用細筆刷+放大一直修 (tkhbSu0I 15/04/01 13:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 哪個比較好看客戶說了算。開玩笑講句「不可質疑你戶的品味!」啊XD (ArDam6NA 15/04/01 13:55)
(゚∀゚)<: *客戶 (ArDam6NA 15/04/01 13:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 話說,所以你有沒有收到錢? (ArDam6NA 15/04/01 13:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 你要不要先換電腦啊....只能畫1000像素有點誇張 (wAlluvk6 15/04/01 14:09)
(・_ゝ・)<: 錢對方當然沒給,一直不簽約還放置我......然後電腦打工存錢買了,只是那幾年的習慣改不掉(屾) (tkhbSu0I 15/04/01 14:42)
(゚∀゚)<: 以後對方不肯簽約 你就別動工來逼對方趕快簽 (IEcoN1wc 15/04/01 15:46)
(゚∀゚)<: 挑一下客戶喇 學生接案很容易以為有案子就一頭熱 被騙 (uZnHBEWM 15/04/01 15:53)
(゚∀゚)<: 特別是對岸一堆老油條棒棒 當然台灣愛畫大餅姬掰人也很多 (uZnHBEWM 15/04/01 15:54)
(゚∀゚)<: 總覺得看眼睛就猜到對方拿什麼畫風給你參考 (ymrqELiE 15/04/01 15:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 覺得試畫那張.......真的確定那叫試畫?覺得再修一下就算完稿了 (PtzrnSrE 15/04/01 16:45)
・゚(ノд`゚)<: 感覺浪費了5天的感覺,另外請教一下這張大概值多少之類? 整個下午上課腦袋都是連2k也不值的言論 (tkhbSu0I 15/04/01 17:17)
・゚(ノд`゚)<: 試畫那張真的有高完成度嗎 因為我平日都是用れーーあ (tkhbSu0I 15/04/01 17:18)
・゚(ノд`゚)<: 按到抱歉 用rella和ASK等級去量自己的圖 所以也拿不穩自己的水平在哪 (tkhbSu0I 15/04/01 17:19)
(゚∀゚)<: 和大圖比起來,試畫那張完成度比較高沒錯,不過要和你提的那兩個畫師比那當然差得遠了... (wAlluvk6 15/04/01 18:19)
(゚∀゚)<: 你說賣量大概一百本那其實也差不多就是那樣了,中偏下的水準 (wAlluvk6 15/04/01 18:24)
(゚∀゚)<: 同人這塊混得好打起基礎也有助於進軍商業 (wAlluvk6 15/04/01 18:26)
(゚∀゚)<: 圖的張力的問題。還有你骨架光影概念也挺弱...中下差不多... (s4DyVcNM 15/04/01 19:41)
(゚∀゚)<: 胸部、大腿的結構都不對,骨架乍看有一回事但連草圖都是錯的,換個動作力體就崩壞,手也太短... (s4DyVcNM 15/04/01 19:43)
(゚∀゚)<: 要說的話的確沒有2千價值 (s4DyVcNM 15/04/01 19:44)
(゚∀゚)<: 圖的價值不是按需求來看嗎? (uZnHBEWM 15/04/01 20:22)
(゚∀゚)<: 是沒錯,但畫出來程度不夠一樣沒用啊XD不然一個普通會CG的國中生畫的符合尺寸大小規格的...基本工糟糕的圖,你用嗎? (xRiRhQWI 15/04/01 20:25)
(゚∀゚)<: 原po明顯被坑啦 一百本已經算中手初新者 (uZnHBEWM 15/04/01 20:25)
(゚∀゚)<: 也是有場上沒賣到一百本 案子一張四五千的ㄚ (uZnHBEWM 15/04/01 20:27)
(゚∀゚)<: 所以用賣幾本不準啊,一堆人都不是基本工不夠,是圖沒有魅力,這種的就適合接案不適合出本 (xRiRhQWI 15/04/01 20:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 論骨架跟上色...這程度真的沒有2000的價值 (nnesKYqs 15/04/01 22:10)
(゚∀゚)<: 喔?那依nnesKYqs和s4DyVcNM兩位高見來看 http://www.komicdn.com/my/durudurudadada/soho/src/1427179461699.jpg是否有兩千的價值呢? (uZnHBEWM 15/04/01 22:46)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果不是強調色氣的插圖,有喔,樓上。 (xRiRhQWI 15/04/01 23:03)
(゚∀゚)<: 覺得原PO真衰,被一直改稿也算了,開串時說報1600被一堆人說太低,現在又被婊沒有2000的價值,所以到底是要人怎樣啦ww (JgDLYjfE 15/04/02 00:31)
(゚∀゚)<: 因為一開始沒放圖啊,如果是原題那張金髮娘抱枕,1600真的低得不像話 (6u5ZmIvk 15/04/02 11:33)
(゚∀゚)<: 若是那張金髮娘大概會多少?(這裡也是對自己的報價有點不知所以..... (6l.jEke6 15/04/02 11:40)
(゚∀゚)<: 明明原po有貼自己的圖和p站 (sktE3cwo 15/04/02 12:01)
(゚∀゚)<: 金髮娘的骨架大致沒問題,完稿度跟賣相都很有水準,少說也要10K吧 (lhOiD9C2 15/04/02 12:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 金髮娘那張不是範例圖嗎?原po有說是他畫的? (Uh9CAl9c 15/04/02 12:46)
(゚∀゚)<: 一堆人根本看圖就腦補www (Uh9CAl9c 15/04/02 12:47)
(゚∀゚)<: 一般大家也都是用自己的標準來看,所以會覺得1600太低不意外,這裡很多接案老手啊 (6u5ZmIvk 15/04/02 12:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 不是說「現在一個遊戲要求附圖的畫風+完成度」嗎... (BxTz61Z. 15/04/03 22:44)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:UyS48y9wNo.506回報1474推文

不太懂有些人的想法
很多人都做了不錯的東西
怎麼不繼續做成成品然後自己賣
一定要給別人賺一手??

收起推文
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(゚∀゚)<: 成名前先用商業稿穩定收入+曝光累積名氣,闖出名後再自己做自己賣,這樣比較有效率吧。前提是你得懂得做生意,有行銷才能。 (34f2Tn7M 15/04/02 08:13)
(゚∀゚)<: 這邊反而是同人賣到一定名氣陸續有出版社上來邀稿耶... (g3kPi7r6 15/04/05 11:08)
(゚∀゚)<: 我是34f2Tn7M。同人賣到有名氣再轉商業也不是不好,但是看原po的狀況,應該是想先有穩定的收入,而無法有長時間可以消耗玩同人慢慢累積名氣。 (QS87MW6g 15/04/06 08:38)
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無標題 家裡蹲 ID:wZvjn652No.507回報推文
>UyS48y9w
做個簡單的比喻:
你忙了一整天晚餐可以選擇吃80塊便當度過
也能選擇花80塊買食材花心力烹調好吃個兩三天
外食族偶爾自己下廚很有趣
天天都要你這麼做那就不是件易事

要考慮的兩個點是:創作力和行銷手段
如果圖畫得好卻沒有編劇能力是很悲劇的
早期就有位七瀨葵可以參考

然後行銷是一場持久戰
你要如何讓你的招牌打響並且在每天都有大批新血投入的市場維持競爭力
那難度即使是對於全心投入的創作者而言也是一項挑戰
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:xRiRhQWINo.508回報1推文

個人不是什麼高手,但一隻5k的普通立繪,3小時內KO幾乎不被改是可以的
用我的風個稍微畫了一下骨架,親友不要認
需要肉感的再自己調整加肉
加油啦

(゚∀゚)<: http://i.imgur.com/lM62JFS.png 也試著畫了腿,原PO在膝蓋小腿等地方多觀察真人照片吧,會很有幫助 (ymrqELiE 15/04/01 22:49)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:3CbSqqKoNo.509回報5推文
>>No.507
那把你們的能力借給其他人不就好了
島上不也有其他的作者嗎?
(゚∀゚)<: 廣告公司就像你所說的借行銷力給其他人,只是行銷成本太龐大了,一般人能發揮的影響力很有限 (wZvjn652 15/04/01 21:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 所以市場才會由創作者尋求行銷,比較少行銷反過來尋找創作者吧,當然大師級或國寶一類就不一樣了XD (wZvjn652 15/04/01 21:57)
(゚∀゚)<: 那參與遊戲公司或輕小說的企劃案,也能看做利用對方的體系、管道打知名度030 翅膀長硬了就(ry (wZvjn652 15/04/01 22:03)
(゚∀゚)<:                                         射了 (3CbSqqKo 15/04/01 22:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 樓上www (POtgQeZk 15/04/03 17:08)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:4HWTRdU2No.510回報15推文

借稿撇了一下,其實設計蠻可愛的
但我也覺得你的試稿好看多了,不過畫外包...特別你又沒名氣本來就是需要配合公司需求,每個人的審美觀都不一樣
>>特別是老闆的


如果你會因為這樣覺得很打擊甚至有陰影,還是畫畫同人開心就好
賺外快方法很多

收起推文
5推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 你也沒畫多好啊 (TVmrFNeQ 15/04/03 08:54)
(゚∀゚)<: 但說真的 外包不要輕易答應低價 若你的能力只能開低價 那就代表現階段先忍耐一下好好練功就是了 不然硬接也只會找到一些奧客 (TVmrFNeQ 15/04/03 08:55)
(゚∀゚)<: 我比較推薦你直接跑國外各大圖站...那邊都是看到你畫風才跟你談的不會有說我想要像這個畫師的問題 (VySXNUGc 15/04/03 09:17)
(゚∀゚)<: 然後就是老外的薪資比我們高三倍以上~價格有自信就竟量開吧~一張200美刀以上得我也看過了 (VySXNUGc 15/04/03 09:18)
(゚∀゚)<: 光腳就畫得比原原PO好了,如果原原PO想走的是萌系,那Ask還是Rella對你可能幫助不大 (Csie1ZJA 15/04/03 12:13)
(゚∀゚)<: 另外同意要找的案主是喜歡你的畫風,而非想要你模仿他人畫風的,後者只是把你當人體拷貝機 (Csie1ZJA 15/04/03 12:14)
(゚∀゚)<: 上面兩樓就有蠻正確的骨架了你為什麼還可以畫這麼崩 (fwD0u39g 15/04/03 14:12)
(゚∀゚)<: 我也沒有說我畫的比較好好嘛,是覺得他設計很可愛 (4HWTRdU2 15/04/03 22:55)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果為了接工作造成陰影,甚至會影響到自己不想畫圖....感覺 (4HWTRdU2 15/04/03 22:58)
(゚∀゚)<: 就有點本末倒置了(有點不知道該怎麼說),畢竟會想當工作大部分也是本身對畫圖有興趣,為了工作有陰影真得很可惜 (4HWTRdU2 15/04/03 23:01)
(゚∀゚)<: 抱歉剛剛一直按到ENTER...bbb,我比較喜歡原PO本身的畫風,但除非你很有名氣,不然接案很多就是要看案主喜好 (4HWTRdU2 15/04/03 23:08)
(゚∀゚)<: 因為怕遇到陰影就不去嘗試是很可惜的事....很多人爬到頂尖之前 誰不是流血流淚跨過去的.... (WjtUkM6Y 15/04/04 08:46)
(゚∀゚)<: 真的嗎?可是有些人就是比較幸運 有朋友有貴人............ (ygGtPXZs 15/04/04 09:57)
(゚∀゚)<: 是說原po給的東方那張 原po不妨先把人物摳掉 然後想想這張背景要多少再來想這張價錢吧我覺得 (23nx7TaM 15/04/04 22:18)
(;´д`)<: 阿 該推底下的 推錯 手機要複製好麻煩 (23nx7TaM 15/04/04 22:20)
無標題 原PO ID:VnkXkER6No.511回報80推文

最近因為忙所以晚了回文抱歉

先謝謝回文的大家,附圖是自己看了上面前輩的示範之後自己再畫了一下

>骨架問題
因為知道自己的骨架一直有改進空間,所以上面有先問過如果對方要修改是因為自己實力不足的情況該怎麼辦…
而試稿和完稿的骨架會崩一方面是因為自己的問題,一方面也是因為配合對方指定畫風的關係
呃 好像在為自己開脫的感覺orz
試稿的時候就知道有上身太短和下盤接不上的問題了
只是畫正稿時對方說想繼續用所以照描了一次
然後下半身在修改時拉回平日常畫的比例便令手太短之類的問題全跑出來了orz
這方面也是我疏忽……

>完成度
因為自己喜歡的繪師都是Rella和ASK那種的
所以不是很知道完成度的算法……像首圖我也覺得看起來很普通?
一直以來都是以大神級的為目標 而不是我自認有大神的水準orz
另外我覺得自己的畫風應該沒有很萌系?

>開價
開價這是因為開了1600被大家說太低
上網找到都說是4k~6k起跳 然後找到對岸的遊戲公司畫圖工是一天3k左右
對方要求工期四天 但我問對方平日開什麼價他一直說
「平日我們請的是專業人員所以價格不能參考」
和朋友討論之後決定開6k上限 等對方覺得太高再給出他們真正的價錢
結果最後對方沒有砍價就答應了

>現在一個遊戲要求附圖的畫風+完成度
這個其實是對方拿了兩三款遊戲的圖要求我畫試稿
要求畫出超次元ゲイム ネプテューヌ的臉+其他遊戲的風格
然後試稿通過之後對方問我能不能畫開串圖的畫風+完成度
>但是沿用試稿設計的角色則不用模仿開串圖的畫風
所以現在這張完稿並不是照開串圖來畫的orz
只是當時對方說會有後續系列+需要照畫風畫 才用開串圖來問價
不知道我這樣說有沒有說清楚……

>有陰影
其實是令我在自己的實力是不是真的低下這事上鑽牛角尖
因為我覺得開串圖很普通所以自己應該畫得出來
但是第一個說不值2000的人拿出他覺得值6000的圖 大概是7 8年前的男性向畫風 (我覺得不太好看)
然後大家也說我覺得普通的開串圖值10k時
就覺得自己也太自大(艸) 然後很丟臉 也有種自己畫圖畫了一段時間卻畫不好
總之就是玻璃心這樣(艸)

接外包方面會自己再想想了 謝謝各位前輩m(U_U)m

收起推文
70推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 我認為你骨架可能不熟 所以在案主要求多次修改後 你就沒辦法同時兼顧案主需求跟骨架正確性了 (WjtUkM6Y 15/04/04 08:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 沒辦法審美很主觀,有些前輩(自稱)覺得有價值的圖自己可能覺得呵呵 可能連審美都要改造才接得到案子囉~~~ (ygGtPXZs 15/04/04 10:08)
(´,_ゝ`)<: 學某個偷偷說的語調 繪圖作品 要愛惜自己的羽毛 共勉之ㄛ^^ 顆顆 (ygGtPXZs 15/04/04 10:15)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果你看不出來你開串圖的價值那其實也真的事你實力沒到那邊...開串圖贏的就3點:立體感、骨架、畫風。至於完程度,的確是普通水準。 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 10:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 那你說ㄟ?那三點?不就是快要等於全部了?是的,全部。拿你喜歡的ask跟rella來比遇給你聽,你認為這兩味完程度很高還是強在哪裡? (XARME6/s 15/04/04 10:57)
(゚∀゚)<: 我告訴你,ask之於其他使用厚塗的畫家來說並沒有比較精美,但他掌握了光影骨架和構圖,對,又是光影骨架。 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 10:58)
(゚∀゚)<: rella更不用說了,放p站的圖對他來說很多都只能算塗鴉,線條混亂、陰影甚至只有一層。但是他掌握了光影立體構圖還有他紮實的骨架(他後來有練喔),結果又是這些東西,完稿度反而很低。 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 10:59)
(゚∀゚)<: 順便說我問一堆前輩rella (XARME6/s 15/04/04 11:00)
(゚∀゚)<: (按太快)的圖遊戲公司要不要?他們說除非是不重視完稿的卡牌遊戲,不然作為一般立繪會希望他畫精緻一點,也就是說就算是rella,拿他p站那種完稿度一樣會被退稿。 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 11:01)
(゚∀゚)<: 所以我說你一整個參考錯方向了啊~ (XARME6/s 15/04/04 11:01)
(゚∀゚)<: 大概是7 8年前的男性向畫風,你覺得不好看,所以其實你也是靠畫風在評斷一張圖。我告訴你就是因為他是7.8年前的畫風才只有值6千。 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 11:05)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果不但骨架正確構圖優美立體光影圖顯,還要加上畫風討喜,那沒有10k根本就是不合理啊!你會跟版上的人有看法的差異,只是因為我們看得到其他地方你看不見而以 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 11:07)
(゚∀゚)<: 案子接久了就會知道案主是什麼意思。會自動變成人體翻譯機,對方說的完稿度,你為以為只有指上色層次,但事實上他指的包含光影骨架,因為對外行來說, (XARME6/s 15/04/04 11:10)
(゚∀゚)<: 他不太懂上色的程序,他看不出來rella也只有上一層,但他只會覺得他的立體感有出來所以完稿度比較高... (XARME6/s 15/04/04 11:10)
(((゚д゚)))<: (非原PO)這串真是學到不少東西...收穫很多... (HEdzhLdc 15/04/04 11:31)
(゚∀゚)<: 好想看XARME6/s大大畫ㄉ圖ㄛ!!! (ygGtPXZs 15/04/04 14:35)
(`・ω・´)<: (原PO) 怎麼說,我一直也是喜歡ASK和Rella的風格,當然也知道他們強大是在基本功和光影上,然後我喜歡和學習他們厲害的地方,倒是沒考慮到要用來畫外包, (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:04)
(`・ω・´)<: 畫外包只是最近覺得是用來幫補家計的一個方法才有興趣的。而開串圖我覺得骨架畫風上色也沒什麼大問題,但就很普通……特別是上色都只是模糊地上一下這樣,所以不太懂10k的價值在哪。 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:06)
(`・ω・´)<: 而我說老舊男性向畫風那個,主要的問題我覺得是髒色,上陰影只加上灰度強的而沒有做補色等等加上畫很多層,我覺得不叫精美反而很髒……沒有說清楚抱歉(艸) (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:07)
(゚∀゚)<: 畫風討喜,顏色也是流行萌系。你覺得普通?但是皺摺立體感全都到位喔...覺得普通只不過是因為這是很常見的風格,但無關價值。 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 15:10)
(`・ω・´)<: 和朋友談了一下,結論大概是我喜歡的畫風或是自己的畫風也不太適合畫外包吧……大概是像ygGtPXZs說的要改審美才行 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:10)
(゚∀゚)<: 你覺得他哪理模糊的上一下?頭髮嗎? (XARME6/s 15/04/04 15:11)
(゚∀゚)<: ygGtPXZs我的圖都是工作圖呢,不方便在這邊說我是誰,但畫過不少Square的包 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 15:21)
(゚∀゚)<: VnkXkER6方便放上來看看嗎?那張範例圖 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 15:22)
(`・ω・)<: 開串圖覺得模糊就是整個上色,幾乎全張都是用噴槍,然後用色也是非常安全牌,沒亮點的感覺吧? (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:44)
(`・ω・)<: 皺摺立體感方面我倒是覺得畫得不怎樣,上身的襯衫處理得不太好,加了襯衫過大狀態的折痕,但肚子也沒畫出曲線,令腿看上去很突兀(太瘦) 而床單卻沒畫出人體睡在上面的重量感… (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:45)
(`・ω・)<: 所以我才覺得這是一張很普通的圖,要說我程度不到看不出價值也行啦 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:46)
(`・ω・)<: 然後男性向我覺得畫得很髒的是illust_id=48799853 這種,我自認不是因為畫風常見而降低圖的評價的人,會覺得普通就真的因為沒達到亮眼的標準 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:48)
(☉д⊙)<: 呀上面評開串圖的都是在說正面那張,因為這包的案主就是拿正面那張給我看的,雙面圖是我自己估的。 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:53)
(´・ω・`)<: 上面說到襯衫過大其實還有就是肚臍位置太高加上腰曲線沒做出來,單看到裙子ok因為屁股的形狀被擋,再向下看到腿就會覺得太瘦合不上屁股外沿。 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:56)
(´・ω・`)<: 左腿應該有一點抬高,但透視沒做出來…這是我的看法……說我畫不好只會嘴炮也行啦(艸) (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 15:57)
(゚∀゚)<: 看了一下,其實日本也有一半的遊戲是需要這種顏色的,並沒有很髒...如果他的立體和骨架有出來,就是普通的接案標準啊? (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:02)
(゚∀゚)<: 他並沒有整張用噴槍啊?該銳利的銳利該柔的柔反而比通通很銳利完程度還高... (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:03)
(゚∀゚)<: 所以你還是因為畫風和用色來評估圖的價值的人啊...襯衫那樣其實萌系常作,你不知道襯衫大一點比較萌嗎 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:06)
(゚∀゚)<: 然後你講的缺點...硬要說也對,但幾乎是雞蛋挑骨頭的程度啊?如果他通通有作到,就不只10k囉~ (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:07)
(´゚д゚`)<: 我是說幾乎全張都是用噴槍呀…然後畫太大件沒問題,可是骨架沒喬好就是問題呀…我覺得髒那張你覺得不髒我想也是審美不同吧,所以我也說了我要接外包大概要改審美這樣 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 16:09)
(゚∀゚)<: 初學者或者外行人常常都有疑問:我明明畫得比他好or他明明畫得這麼爛,為什麼他有工作我沒有?為什麼他人氣高我不行? (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:09)
(゚∀゚)<: 因為他們都只會看到不重要的地方,想想你是不是也是這樣吧...等你開始知道圖的價值的時候就是專職接包了... (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:10)
(´゚д゚`)<: 還有我覺得髒色那張是對方拿這張說這張就值6000,完成度高的範例,但不說骨架崩顏色我就先不能接受了… (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 16:11)
(゚∀゚)<: 那個,我想你不明白我的意思。那種顏色,我不喜歡。要說的話,的確髒。那是在p站分數不容易高的圖。但是,如果他只有顏色髒,其他都還不錯,我還是會發包給他 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:12)
(゚∀゚)<: 大陸很多遊戲都是這種用色、日本也是。因為年紀比較高的人其實還是喜歡這種用色的。 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:12)
(゚∀゚)<: http://i.imgur.com/iCxpNCl.png 有沒接好嗎?肚臍並沒有太高的問題 (vhRiKVJM 15/04/04 16:13)
(゚∀゚)<: 所以髒,只是我把他的顏色跟"現在流行的用色"來比較下的結論,但"不影響"如果"其他精度都不錯狀態下"的價碼。只是如果"他用色再流行一點",價格"會更高" (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:14)
(゚∀゚)<: 其實我也覺得頂多裙子弧度不太明顯但骨架沒問題... (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:15)
(゚∀゚)<: 說來說去還是靠關係最爽 原po可以去和男友討安慰洗洗睡囉 (ygGtPXZs 15/04/04 16:15)
(゚∀゚)<: 還有你重畫那張胸骨位置還是不對,你的腋下難道長在心臟處嗎?要高談闊論以前你要不要先去把人體結構好好摸一遍啊... (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:17)
(´・ω)<: http://i.imgur.com/SiwG1r2.jpg 本人拙見,基本上只是描了一次原圖的外框,真的沒問題嗎…? (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 16:19)
(゚∀゚)<: 原PO的胸腔與腿相比才是真的畫太細了,腰可以苗條但胸腔不能跟著縮水 (vhRiKVJM 15/04/04 16:21)
(゚∀゚)<: 事實證明能力不到的人畫別人已經畫好的東西還是會很崩 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:25)
(゚∀゚)<: http://i.imgur.com/S1h1NmC.jpg 為什麼我描起來跟你描起來差這麼多? 你自己都說衣服過大了為什麼還要照著衣服描啊...&你說你照輪廓描,但那些他都沒有明確畫出來啊,結果是你自己腦補人家崩嗎 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 16:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 建議原PO還是再練吧,左邊胯下怎會這樣囧...素描他人的泳裝照試試 (vhRiKVJM 15/04/04 16:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 裙子沒有明顯的大腿幅度可以理解,百褶裙有一定的硬度撐著自己的皺褶,不太會貼住皮膚走吧?除非他畫夾在腿中 (vhRiKVJM 15/04/04 16:48)
(´・ω・`)<: 我早就說了你們要認為我程度不到那就是不到呀……然後草圖那個胸腔我只是記一筆而已,正確樣子是怎樣我當然知道。 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 17:03)
(´・ω・`)<: vhRiKVJM說的左胯下奇怪問題,是因為順著去描一次就會腿對不上,所以加了一筆屁股線…看不出來/覺得怪真是抱歉呀 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 17:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 可是你的完稿圖兩張都是錯的啊...真正知道的人草圖就會畫正確喔,因為對他來說已經是反射動作 (XARME6/s 15/04/04 17:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 我是說你的504,兩張都是錯的。要是真的知道早就知到了,你現在就是一面說自己爛但不想承認吧... (XARME6/s 15/04/04 17:05)
(゚∀゚)<: 因為你骨盆的寬度先理解錯了,當然連不過去啊... (vhRiKVJM 15/04/04 17:08)
(゚∀゚)<: http://i.imgur.com/xtvq1fS.png 再提一個吧...你的腰的幅度不適用在微側面,你是女性的話平時多觀察鏡子中的自己吧 (vhRiKVJM 15/04/04 17:11)
(;゚д゚)<: 我覺得自己真的程度不夠呀,在很早前的回文我就有提及了。504那兩張因為上半身是照描的,所以錯一樣的,不過我也知道自己實力不足啦 (VnkXkER6 15/04/04 17:11)
(゚∀゚)<: 你這張的腰感覺大概是45度側面的腰 但是除了腰你所有地方都是接近正面 (23nx7TaM 15/04/04 17:25)
(゚∀゚)<: 我只能說上面抱枕一眼不會覺得有特別的問題 質感基本都有 但是你自己畫的那張一眼感覺是水桶腰大粗腿顏色糊一坨沒區隔 (23nx7TaM 15/04/04 17:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 不太了解原PO為何一直提程度,我們沒半個說自己程度多好...多看多聽,有用的就吸收,即使你覺得沒用的也多想一下為何別人要這麼建議 (vhRiKVJM 15/04/04 17:34)
(゚∀゚)<: 這裡都匿名,其他人沒有炫耀自己的必要,給建議當然不會是在害你,更沒有硬要你吃下我們的看法,取捨都在你 (vhRiKVJM 15/04/04 17:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 嘛 這是我一個繪圖真空小透明看你的圖的感覺 我不是上面那堆大手 但希望還是能當點參考吧 (23nx7TaM 15/04/04 18:10)
(゚∀゚)<: 原po你的問題不是在於你不知道自己水準不夠 而是你不知道你的水準比開串圖差多了 看不出開串圖的基本功比你穩就證明你的基本功還差得遠 (CC438Fqc 15/04/04 18:27)
(゚∀゚)<: 原po乖ㄛ~~實力也是一環但是不是全部 有些人就是不肯承認靠關係爽爽ㄛ人際也是一環ㄛ (ygGtPXZs 15/04/04 19:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 看你要不要低聲下氣哭求上面前輩感謝調教 之後努力提升實力同時調整審美 留個好印象 說不定以後會有案子好好吃ㄛ^^ (ygGtPXZs 15/04/04 19:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 感謝推文!覺得有收穫,說真的看一看會讓人想把自己的圖丟出來被鞭來進步...... (U8pE.k6I 15/04/05 01:33)
(゚∀゚)<: 樓上你貼啊~~~ 只是圖不夠精彩就會像7LumeJGY那串那樣沒屁用意見附加公開處刑ㄛ (PEuEsczk 15/04/05 13:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 東方那張用色髒髒的部分是皮膚吧,感覺過黃了,其他都還好吧,原PO你的上色還沒人家好 (FAg0iAlc 15/04/05 17:05)
(゚∀゚)<: 不只是案主,其實一般人也是,用色漂亮就及格了,骨架只要不要太誇張就可以 (FAg0iAlc 15/04/05 17:06)
(゚∀゚)<: 看你說金髮孃那張只不過都是用噴槍我就笑了,你大概沒看過真新手畫CG用全噴槍畫出的慘劇吧 (FAg0iAlc 15/04/05 17:08)
(゚∀゚)<: 是說原po給的東方那張 原po不妨先把人物摳掉 然後想想這張背景要多少再來想這張價錢吧我覺得 (Mf447MEk 15/04/07 19:13)
(;´д`)<: 原波: 噴槍慘劇看過,我不太想吵開串圖了,畢竟我本來就沒說對方畫得爛(後來有腦衝才把小事拿來講) (q8ratIZ6 15/04/07 20:02)
(;´д`)<: 然後東方那張只是在回應顏色問題,我知道背景要錢orz (q8ratIZ6 15/04/07 20:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 那就對了阿~就算顏色不討喜~但是光是這背景這完成度就有一定價值了~再加上人物~6000不是啥讓人不能接受的價錢阿 (Mf447MEk 15/04/07 20:18)
(;´д`)<: 主要是對方拿這張來婊我顏色不好看,我就單說顏色這樣...好像很多事我都沒說清楚 (q8ratIZ6 15/04/07 20:28)
(・_ゝ・)<: 單就人物用色技巧跟光影來說,原PO的圖確實還比不上東方那張 (jzC1OPfc 15/04/08 04:25)
(・_ゝ・)<: 只是選色上可能不合原PO喜好 (jzC1OPfc 15/04/08 04:26)
(゚∀゚)<: 撇掉上色光影那些,我真的也見過喜歡這種髒髒的用色的人,覺得現在年輕流行的顏色太乾淨看起來太夢幻 (ItZwb9eM 15/04/08 10:38)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:uSW1KpZcNo.512回報8推文
>>No.511
借串獻醜一下/
這邊我覺得原po在骨架上不足的是對整體結構的立體認知能力,所以才會出現對方要求改動作的時候會改到抓狂的情況……建議原po可以用人偶(不要那種美術課的木製人偶,幫助程度無限趨近0)或者pose studio之類的軟件來輔助學習骨架
還有就是要懂什麼風格的賣點在哪裡,特別是女性角色,臉蛋身材曲線隨便哪個環節都是一點小差錯都能造成骨牌效應搞到完稿出來的東西完全不一樣
所以可以的話草稿階段就盡可能做到能摒除這些差錯(個人現在的稿子花最多時間的程序多數都是草圖上,草圖的型抓準了後面的程序就會快+得心應手很多)

這裡以前也曾經遇過相同的事,跟po主不一樣的是我當年的骨架能力遠比po主這裡貼的還要差,所以當時可是跟對方一直修稿審稿到拖延了對方放工的時間,現在想回去還是會覺得愧疚
後來自然的對方也沒來找我合作了,接下來自己自修了好長一段時間才慢慢地改善那些弱點,也比較能看得出當年對方抓狂的點在哪裡了
想表達的是經過這種事后會鑽牛角尖是肯定的,但是要懂得適時收起情緒重新出發,沒有哪個畫手是沒經歷過挫折期和瓶頸期的,只有積極地走出來才能改善現況,共勉之


PS:忘了說附圖的右腳其實真的這樣擺的話會骨折……
(゚∀゚)<: 老練棒棒再共勉之ㄛ^^原po還不趕快謝恩 抱大腿感謝調教 (PEuEsczk 15/04/05 13:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 有沒有立體感畫出來的圖差很多 我自己是練到能夠'看出'立體感花了滿多時間 但是看出來之後很多缺點就能改進很快畫圖會順手很多 (Ik6hdV9c 15/04/05 16:19)
(*´ω`*)<: (原po) 的確我草稿常常在畫線稿時再回頭去調整…看來目前還是打好基礎比較重要! 另外這動作找妹妹來擺過了發現是擺不出來這樣(艸) (bu8oRuf2 15/04/05 16:33)
(*´ω`*)<: 現在還是乖乖的去上素描和練習,謝謝uSW1KpZc的建議,這骨架看起來真的和我差很多> < (bu8oRuf2 15/04/05 16:33)
(゚∀゚)<: http://i.imgur.com/d520zZE.png 512熱心讚!稍微提一下這邊會有明顯的骨頭突出,google"腰"可以觀察 (dlxzrE.Y 15/04/05 17:59)
(゚∀゚)<: 感謝dlxzrE.Y!這真的是一直沒抓到訣竅的地方 (uSW1KpZc 15/04/05 18:42)
(゚∀゚)<: 擺不出來是因為你重心完全不對啊,整串大家也都跟著錯,站這樣早就摔倒了 (1xVTpn0o 15/04/09 12:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果是有動感的圖重心可以跑到身體外,但這張明顯不是 (1xVTpn0o 15/04/09 13:06)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:R.9nDGU2No.513回報38推文

居然莫名其妙變成骨架串了
給樓主一個想法
我認為樓主這張圖會被退並不全然因為骨架的問題
更大的原因我想出在構圖的規劃
樓主可以觀察看看附圖這張維納斯 或著台灣就KRENZ老師
以及許多的韓國繪師所畫的立繪圖
他們在以紙張的中線為中心
觀察肩膀線/骨盆線/四肢/頭髮分布/物件分布是如何規畫的
最單純的說 只要有物件往右 就必須有一些物件是往左的來平衡畫面 這只是最單純的舉例
樓主的問題出在哪 樓主看一下
http://i.imgur.com/wPnDuCx.jpg
我幫樓主畫了視覺流向
左邊的走向告訴我你這張圖的走向是三條→和一條↓與一條↙
右邊的剪影則告訴我你這張圖的形狀
我們再來看看下面這張圖
http://i.imgur.com/rEfBw6U.jpg
這張是CHAOS ONLINE的角色設定
放上這張圖之後也許能讓樓主更明白我想表達的是什麼
不要說立繪不需要構圖 正是因為立繪的畫面是如此的單調 構圖才真正的顯得很重要 現在不如回去看看那張維納斯吧?
視覺的走向是一張圖豐富的關鍵 就算老闆要你畫得站直直 你也得想辦法用身上的物件來勾出走向
這種概念用在人就是所謂的"動態" 用在畫面就稱為"構圖"
其實都是差不多的思考模式 樓主參考看看
另外如果對這方面有興趣可以去聽聽看KRENZ老師的課
下面是小弟一小時自爽 島民輕鞭:
http://i.imgur.com/13buPOo.jpg

收起推文
28推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 最後一張圖我笑了 (LxEdtMWw 15/04/07 11:10)
(╬゚д゚)<: 可以不要在汙辱KRENZ了嗎?一堆自以為大濕從那邊教出來嘴砲挺丟人現眼 (7seG4N0s 15/04/07 12:23)
(゚∀゚)<: 原PO被打槍主因是畫風,骨架只是問題點之一而已,當業主看你畫風不太順眼時,自然圖怎看怎怪 (K4i6lg4U 15/04/07 13:44)
(゚∀゚)<: 業主要求的開串附圖明顯是男向,卻找畫風明顯是女向的原PO來畫,業主問題比較大 (K4i6lg4U 15/04/07 13:45)
(゚∀゚)<: 要一位女繪師硬轉畫風去男向,就跟要一位男繪師去畫BL一樣,當然怎畫怎怪 (K4i6lg4U 15/04/07 13:47)
(゚∀゚)<: ps.我知道有很多女繪師也是男向大手,但原PO明顯不是這種人,看她挑剔開串附圖即可知道... (K4i6lg4U 15/04/07 13:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 理論跟完稿度差太多......建議還是老實練功把作畫穩定度提高了再研究構圖也不遲 這樣的完稿水準會讓人忽略構圖的好壞直接無視的 (/cPm60/E 15/04/07 13:50)
(゚∀゚)<: 我覺得這串說得很好啊,特別是視覺流向那點……很多業主都很在意所謂的S型曲線的(不是全指肉體的曲線) (a.ULhy6Y 15/04/07 15:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 原po的人設其實設計很好,不過原本的那個動作給人感覺就像比較安定的第一手設定一樣,但是要吸引業主和看眾的目光的話撇開好的顏色之外,好的構圖也很容易讓人第一眼就被圖捕捉到 (a.ULhy6Y 15/04/07 15:31)
(゚∀゚)<: 而商業稿還是同人這種畫出來給人看的東西,往往就是你能做到在千百張畫中容易抓到看眾的視線的話就有優勢了 (a.ULhy6Y 15/04/07 15:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 不是說骨架和上色的基礎功不重要,不過那經常是在看第二眼的時候才會去琢磨的事 (a.ULhy6Y 15/04/07 15:36)
(;´д`)<: 我是原波,構圖流線這點是很重要的參考呢,想想這次對方一直說要畫出女性曲線說不定不是單指他提的屁股和腿 (HEvZ7zlA 15/04/07 19:03)
(;´д`)<: 其實我也很好奇附了作品為什麼還要我做了超出我能力的修改... 反倒對方沒挑過我上色 (HEvZ7zlA 15/04/07 19:05)
(;´д`)<: 然後因為有對白的的關係就直覺認為是gal game式立繪而定出站直之後骨架爛一改就ry (HEvZ7zlA 15/04/07 19:08)
(;´д`)<: 總之這邊還是先打好基礎吧(非科系+沒上過畫室) 我對自己畫風女性向這點滿驚訝的,因為不會畫男生+朋友都說我偏男性向 (HEvZ7zlA 15/04/07 19:10)
(゚∀゚)<: 因為你畫的女生也沒有達到男性向要的萌要素。不是不會畫男生,只會畫女生就叫男性向的 (2G0c9bxQ 15/04/07 19:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 那張被你嫌的金髮娘抱枕才有達到男性向要有的萌要素 (2G0c9bxQ 15/04/07 19:37)
(;´д`)<: 呃...其實我真的沒在嫌...大概用詞問題,我說普通的意思是男性向常見+沒大崩壞,不錯的作品的意思...後來的言論是有腦衝就是 (q8ratIZ6 15/04/07 19:50)
(;´д`)<: 所以我大概是沒摸到男性向的喜好,畢竟不是男生+平日很少接觸這樣 (q8ratIZ6 15/04/07 19:53)
(゚∀゚)<: 路過一說 原PO像不像男性向我不清楚 但我也不覺得有到女性向畫風的程度啊... (j85R6h1c 15/04/07 19:54)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果0是女性向1是男性向~原PO的畫風接近0.5吧~了不起就是0.4~0.5我感覺~原畫風實在是沒有男性會喜歡的要素在 (Mf447MEk 15/04/07 20:20)
(゚∀゚)<: 怎麼講~不是胸部大露大腿就是男性向了˙ (Mf447MEk 15/04/07 20:21)
(゚∀゚)<: 還有一般向這個分類 (lLGRWCVM 15/04/07 22:23)
(゚∀゚)<: 很簡單,因為不是一般狹義女性向,而是少女向,切忌落入二分法。 (Js2gReBc 15/04/08 13:29)
|∀゚)<: 其實就是覺得不像主流少女也不像主流耽美才說不像女性向..... (/P.TFLKk 15/04/09 02:15)
(゚∀゚)<: 也覺得原PO一般向偏女啦,是沒道很少女但是就是普遍女生會喜歡的畫法。案主要她仿的完全相反路線,當下就該確認方向,不對就推掉 (1xVTpn0o 15/04/09 12:51)
(゚∀゚)<: 韓國的就算了 東抄西抄 會覺得好的8成見識少 (JFOsIaMU 15/04/09 14:53)
(゚∀゚)<: 樓上外行 (ixjXwbmo 15/04/11 10:32)
(゚∀゚)<: 韓國的畫師撇開過於特色的骨架 光上色就打趴台灣一票畫師了 呵呵 見識少 (K2RKwq3w 15/04/11 10:48)
(゚∀゚)<: 而且講到抄 我怎麼都是看對岸還有咱們自己的遊戲公司抄很大啊 wow 金亨泰 抄不膩啊 (K2RKwq3w 15/04/11 10:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 泡菜有實力的畫師多的嚇人去了,樓樓樓樓上多看看外面的世界吧。 (FUXGTn6k 15/04/11 13:57)
(´_ゝ`)<: 捧韓國LP捧得真噁心 看了就反吐 (6C8s9IGE 15/04/11 19:09)
(´_ゝ`)<: 台灣的職業繪師 大多非常低調行動 用不著捧韓國LP捧到可以打趴台灣一票繪師這種狗屁話 (6C8s9IGE 15/04/11 19:12)
(゚∀゚)<: 這不是捧lp的問題 現實層面就是韓國繪師的水準普遍比台灣高 現在連大陸那邊也是 ( 攤手 (DZlEAiCM 15/04/18 08:23)
(゚∀゚)<: 而且老實講台灣有能耐到kkuem和金亨泰那種等級的畫師 只有個位數 (DZlEAiCM 15/04/18 08:31)
(´_ゝ`)<: 眼前就是台灣畫師的競爭力太低 每天看pixiv前30內ㄧ堆大陸的 偶爾有韓國 歐美的......唉 台灣呢 (DZlEAiCM 15/04/18 08:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 學到東西了,感謝教學 (VHzG6xUI 15/05/08 01:14)
(゚∀゚)<: 居然有人不知道大陸有在買榜的.在說大陸人這麼多.投個1分加起來都比台灣人還多 (.7lbhEvE 15/12/04 19:31)

好奇一下 家裡蹲 ID:OmYvLoMcNo.502回報11推文回應

好奇一下
只有美術可以在這邊討論嗎??
如果想做簡單的遊戲不知道有沒有行情
(多人線上那種可能不行
但是可以做成單機的
類似雨港那樣類型的遊戲
或著比較不熱門的其他類型)

收起推文
1推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 做遊戲分很多類型和工作項目耶,不知道你想問什麼 (noHUCNgw 15/04/01 18:02)
(゚∀゚)<: 我想找這類的工作 (q0Fv/ZAE 15/04/02 15:15)
(゚∀゚)<: 遊戲有分背景 立繪 CG UI 不知道你是要問哪一種? (WjtUkM6Y 15/04/04 08:49)
(゚∀゚)<: 我不是美術 我是做遊戲系統程式 想找這類的工作 (mjvLdWHU 15/04/04 22:09)
(゚∀゚)<: 去遊戲製作或相關的討論板看看有沒有在徵人吧,或是把你的專長、作品、聯絡方式貼一下,再看有沒有人要聯絡你 (0MQsTMI6 15/04/05 14:25)
(゚∀゚)<: 找遊戲製作相關的討論板會比較容易找到這種機會 (0MQsTMI6 15/04/05 14:26)
(゚∀゚)<: 另一種是直接寫信給目前有在做遊戲的製作組,看他們缺不缺人 (0MQsTMI6 15/04/05 14:26)
(゚∀゚)<: 我去巴哈看了一下,基本上都綁定RPG製做大師。可是那個在公司沒學過也不太想用,或許島民有不限制的? (TrlbeH4w 15/04/05 23:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 如果不限制的話我就可以方便很多 (TrlbeH4w 15/04/05 23:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 做AVG的團隊也不少啊,多找找多問問吧~ (g4FEAfPM 15/04/06 00:53)
(゚∀゚)<: 島上有嗎?? (q4KAmdnY 15/04/06 22:57)

大家好 由於這邊很少爬K島看資訊 且幾乎沒發過文 原PO ID:7LumeJGYNo.496回報6推文回應

大家好 由於這邊很少爬K島看資訊 且幾乎沒發過文
若有言談不慎之處還請見諒並告知我一聲><"

這邊畫電繪有很長一段時間了
不過到了近幾年才開始慢慢進步 有所起色

近幾週在朋友的鼓勵與建議下開始嘗試接案與投稿

但本身真正目標是想成為接案繪師
所以希望也必須得到更多專業人士的建議與見解
想在此麻煩各位給予指點與指教
並且也想了解自己現在的實力大約是什麼程度

現階段能力方面 我很清楚自己的基礎功完全不夠穩紮
所以每天畫新作品的同時
也會撥出一定時間加強苦練這部分

目前較專精苦練的部分是骨架 透視與建築(背景)

我目前21歲 想成為繪師的事已與家人溝通過 家人表示支持

至今還未有過任何正式接案與製作同人商品的經驗
(已決定會於今年開始在同人場上販賣商品試水溫)

主動跑廠與印刷製品部分 因為自己就讀科系之緣故(視傳)
所以有過少許經驗

附圖是近幾天嘗試接案的業主方所需閱覽的試畫
由於是試畫緣故 所以完成度並不高 線稿也很亂 不好意思><
(已確定本次沒有達成合作協議 所以才在此將試畫放上)

並附上我的PIXIV
http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=345597

真的麻煩各位了>< 謝謝你們!

(゚∀゚)<: 不知道你想問哪方面的意見?問題不夠具體也不知道要回答什麼 (QeRHGhdc 15/03/31 13:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 你自己也知道你的問題了阿,所以要回答什麼?看圖的話就是上色層次感不夠,骨架構圖也需要加強 (OEwS/Grw 15/03/31 14:16)
(゚∀゚)<: 還有就是畫風非常的不討喜,看你要揣摩感覺還是把基本功練高 (OEwS/Grw 15/03/31 14:17)
(゚∀゚)<: 構圖也不好,球擺的位置很糟糕,我重看了兩三次才發現這是撞球 (Zg7YcIeQ 15/03/31 15:21)
(゚∀゚)<: 你的雙眼位置,輕鬆閉著的眼睛不該在中間,使力閉著的比較會 (onJNX9Jc 15/03/31 22:19)
(゚∀゚)<: 你這張圖是不是畫壞了....太多吐槽點 (S9T28zS6 15/04/04 00:53)
無標題 原PO ID:FDMjPzIENo.498回報3推文

你好! 本文沒有清楚詳細地指出自己的提問很不好意思><
這次主要想問的是 想知道自己目前的水平
有沒有能力可以開始邊嘗試接案邊繼續紮實自己
(現階段小case的程度就可以了 目前覺得若能有機會就很值得開心了qq)
亦或者實際上實力落差太大了
所以還是先別去處理這部分 好好紮實自己的實力比較要緊
也想知道自己目前是不是還是有其他大問題
但我本身沒有發現或注意到
(本文有提到的骨架,透視,建築(背景)除外)

最近有一張圖還在繪製中 是有包含透視跟背景的
不過還在途中(完成度還未過半 但已有整體架構)
不知道放上來給各位過目的話有沒有參考價值...

(゚∀゚)<: 放吧,無論程度如何,敢給人看才有進步的機會。 (Zg7YcIeQ 15/03/31 15:17)
(゚∀゚)<: 讓市場決定一切吧,說不定有人就是喜歡你的風格啊 (ArDam6NA 15/04/01 12:47)
(゚∀゚)<: 接不接到案是很結果論的事,沒有一條界線說越過這就能接到。而且賣得出去有時也很講合不合緣 (ArDam6NA 15/04/01 12:49)
無標題 原PO ID:orFseDeYNo.499回報1推文

QeRHGhdc 謝謝您的回應!
畫風部分 因為近幾年邊畫圖磨練的同時
也都還在持續改變中
所以我會以練好基礎功為主 邊修正自己的畫風
(現在的畫風也還沒達到自己的理想狀態 所以會再繼續改變)

Zg7YcIeQ 謝謝您提點了我構圖上的缺失!
之後構圖時會再多注意物件擺放與前後關係的!
剛剛有提到的包含透視與背景的途中 已經連同附檔放上

背景還會再加上藤蔓枝葉與青苔等植物表現
水波部分有被朋友指明說 中間捲起來的部分動向很突兀很怪
所以那部分也還會再做調整

(゚∀゚)<: 比起那個,左邊人物的眼睛靠太近了吧? 顏色算還不錯 但是人臉崩壞就沒有其他了 (Pk7RF4q6 15/03/31 17:33)

手機遊戲廠商外包的報價 家裡蹲 ID:pX1dPviwNo.497回報2推文回應

想請問關於日本手遊廠商的純場景單張外包
大小:2047*2727
dpi:72
需做圖層分層(前中後景)
草圖修正2次、色調修正1次、上色修正2次
1個月交稿

稿酬4500是不是太低了?
對方希望的完成度大概是梅露可的場景程度,細節多一點
有一定的透視要求,是商店畫面使用的場景

個人是第一次接案子,對於報價方面沒有經驗,想請問板上的看法

(゚∀゚)<: 梅露可的程度這價格還好 (雖然不算高,算可) (nwMdZYrg 15/04/07 15:33)
(゚∀゚)<: 若是加上人物還要配合場景到梅露可那程度商業稿就不只這價了 (ju75pZGc 15/05/22 10:53)

新手接案問題 家裡蹲 ID:QwfG8HocNo.486回報16推文回應

大家好,個人最近剛脫離家裡蹲生活開始工作
但因為一些個人原因想嘗試往插畫接案這方面發展
但苦無門路,想請問依我目前的實力有望接到案子嗎?
還是該再練練...

附上P網:http://www.pixiv.net/member.php?id=465082

收起推文
6推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 看你想要接哪一種,如果是日本那種分工合作的還可以,就接點描線之類,不然就是比較低價的手機遊戲 (oI3jBqIM 15/03/29 10:34)
(゚∀゚)<: 看了你的圖,人體可以了,描線也ok,但首先你要先練點人物以外的東西表現,例如附圖這張背景就很假,老虎也像假的(雖然老虎描線和造型還不錯 (oI3jBqIM 15/03/29 10:37)
(゚∀゚)<: 然後用色方面,去研究什麼是補色,你目前的上色都是同一個顏色加深而已,很螢光。最後立體感不足,光影表現沒有作出來,光源也很亂 (oI3jBqIM 15/03/29 10:38)
(゚∀゚)<: 感謝,那隻老虎是在估狗看了一整個早上的老虎圖片後硬生出來的,果然還是不行啊 (QwfG8Hoc 15/03/29 10:52)
・゚(ノд`゚)<: 上色跟背景目前在努力鑽研中,當年還在讀書有時間時該更努力點的... (QwfG8Hoc 15/03/29 10:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 顏色方面不太OK.... (K1dle9Xo 15/03/29 14:11)
(゚∀゚)<: 立體感方面,不知原PO願不願意讓我用色彩增值做個小範圍的改圖呢? (tmXWn1lw 15/03/29 15:43)
(゚∀゚)<: >>tmXWn1lw 請隨意,有人示範會比我自學快很多 (MjYMjXGM 15/03/29 16:51)
(゚∀゚)<: http://i.imgur.com/rskuJEj.pnghttp://i.imgur.com/YwnbHse.png 原PO有很多不同部位、方向,卻**一樣亮**的地方,要慢慢觀察哪些地方照不太到光、應該被遮住 (tmXWn1lw 15/03/29 17:00)
(゚∀゚)<: 從樹幹上的影子來看,你較強的光源在右上,靠左的肩、手、腿、馬尾內側等的不該與靠右的都一樣亮,甚至是衣袖內、個件衣服的夾層的陰影細節都能增加完成度 (tmXWn1lw 15/03/29 17:05)
(゚∀゚)<: 大片暗色大膽得用,就像你樹幹影子一樣,否則人與景會像在不同空間~加油 (tmXWn1lw 15/03/29 17:11)
(゚∀゚)<: http://i.imgur.com/I8yyVP7.png 樹不好畫,所以直接從原本形狀改變明暗的分布,應該多少能應付XD (tmXWn1lw 15/03/29 18:41)
Σ(゚д゚)<: 喔喔整個光源的方向清楚多了,感謝! (能請問太太有P網嗎 (xXj8Ccr. 15/03/29 19:50)
(((゚д゚)))<: 推文太神啦!!! 順便幫我點明了疑問! (bpmtfKHs 15/03/29 19:53)
(゚∀゚)<: 有幫到忙就太好了XD 去除飽和度後更能看出對比不明顯,提議原PO能嘗試畫灰階抓光影作為練習 http://i.imgur.com/VlsaHXs.png (tmXWn1lw 15/03/29 20:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 資訊不好意思在這放,抱歉XDD (tmXWn1lw 15/03/29 20:30)

報價單等於合約? 家裡蹲 ID:twPhBOTYNo.471回報4推文回應

這幾天接到一個A4尺寸的商業插畫案件,
報價4000元,內容簡單,
但是因為明白有些客戶很喜歡小修小改,
甚至大修大改,所以也給客戶提供了合約,
一開始客戶說OK沒問題!會簽約!
後來改口說,
以前的合作廠商都是以報價單和收據為主,
說合約還要送上去要等很久,
又說因為案件金額很小~
詢問我是否能以報價單和收據就好了。
又說其實報價單等於合約,
他們和以前的廠商合作都是這樣的!
比較快!

我也去古狗了一下,
有些說可以,有些說不行~
我以前合作的客戶都會主動要求簽合約...
但是我也了解有些公司單位的流程很多...
想請問大家,如果遇到客戶說不方便覺得麻煩,
不想簽,報價單真的能等同合約嗎@@??
像這樣的情形會建議怎麼處理呢?
麻煩各位了~~(艸)

(゚∀゚)<: 不簽就不畫了,看他臨時改口又簽拖一堆感覺很差 (JbatACNA 15/03/24 15:10)
(゚∀゚)<: 合作連合約也不願簽沒有誠意,話說回來你不就是怕大改小改LOOP才要求簽合約的嗎? (iqNraxPU 15/03/25 02:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 禮貌地請他簽合約,他要盧就跟他一起盧。 (v3x52mAQ 15/03/25 13:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 不要簽就不要畫了,真心的,有的示範圖簡單可是要求不簡單 (dwEX1nrU 15/03/25 21:40)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:SZ/5ngtkNo.472回報26推文

想詳細一下原po怎麼接到案子的ˊˋ
附圖的等級就能接到了嗎?
自己有經營噗浪和FB
目前都沒有肯付費的委託

收起推文
16推省略……
(゚∀゚)<: 與其等人來找,不如自己開發。 話說你也可以把自己的作品放上來大家討論一下是否到業界所需的程度啊? (XDAua4aQ 15/03/25 13:40)
(゚∀゚)<: 怎麼開發ˊˋ? 可是有些當上遊戲美術的圖也沒有很吸引人 (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 13:51)
(゚∀゚)<: 還有報價完對方就消失的要繼續寄信追問嗎ˊˋ還是只是自取其辱算了 (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 13:52)
(゚∀゚)<: 下面幾串就有人把自己作品貼上來的,你不介意的話也可以貼上來大家瞧一瞧啊 (plHr4c9Q 15/03/25 17:20)
(゚∀゚)<: 既然說有些遊戲美術的圖不怎麼吸引人,我也很好奇你的圖又有多吸引人了 (plHr4c9Q 15/03/25 17:21)
(゚∀゚)<: 就是看到有些人的圖也不是很吸引人..卻還是有辦法有案子ˊˋ才問的... (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 19:28)
(゚∀゚)<: 到底都怎麼有案子的...... (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 19:32)
(゚∀゚)<: 你留噗或FB啊w 有一定水準我就向你發委託 (FtQf1nwc 15/03/25 20:20)
(゚∀゚)<: 樓上...只是說笑就算了吧ˊˋ想知道像原po附圖等級是怎麼接到案子 很神祕... (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 20:47)
(゚∀゚)<: 可是你講得不好笑啊,這麼嗆何不放幾張自己的圖 (plHr4c9Q 15/03/25 22:02)
(゚∀゚)<: 原原PO還真是躺著也中槍,還得被暗示是「圖也不是很吸引人..卻還是有辦法有案子」 (plHr4c9Q 15/03/25 22:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 你就是圖比人家還更不吸引人才沒接到委託的啦 (plHr4c9Q 15/03/25 22:06)
(゚∀゚)<: 不用特別上來自取其辱ˊˋ也不是人人都頂尖 可是卻還是有辦法接到案子 很想知道 (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 22:56)
(゚∀゚)<: 況且有些人..說實話畫的也不是頂好 卻還是有辦法有案子 (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 22:59)
(゚∀゚)<: 原po可以告訴我妳怎麼接到案子的嗎? (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 23:05)
(゚∀゚)<: 想想就覺得悲哀 連好認 照燒貓都有案子 自己畫的圖連這些都比不上 (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 23:26)
(゚∀゚)<: 雖然不是原po 但是自己的圖也不放就只會嫌別人圖的這種伸手牌 一般人都不會想告訴你吧 (Zxn9KVLU 15/03/25 23:27)
(゚∀゚)<: plHr4c9Q我是說FtQf1nwc在說笑 不是我在說笑你懂嗎? (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 23:28)
(゚∀゚)<: Zxn9KVLU是你說的是 我是垃圾 智障 哈哈哈 也沒必要貼出來給大家傷眼 (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 23:35)
(゚∀゚)<: 原po你有被我傷到嗎?很抱歉 還請您大人有大量 不要在意我這種接不到案子的嫩B發言 (lp//V0aI 15/03/25 23:36)
(゚∀゚)<: 我FtQf1nwc,沒在跟你說笑,叫你貼又不敢貼,阿你不是想要付費委託? (IoivuF7w 15/03/26 00:30)
(゚∀゚)<: 我是出同人本啦,2k封繪所以要求也不高,現在也跟兩位島民合作了,不要以為每個人都在原地踏步 (IoivuF7w 15/03/26 00:32)
(゚∀゚)<: 總歸一句,樓主到底要不要放圖來給大家評判一下? 接案的圖畫水準是一點,圖的風格適合哪種外包所需也是一點。別在那裏光嫌人家畫不好,看了就一股鳥氣 (s.Yhw516 15/03/26 10:54)
(゚∀゚)<: 另外想請問一下比較無關的,樓主的FB和噗浪經營多久了? (s.Yhw516 15/03/26 11:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 給lp//V0aI,除了實力之外我覺得個性、態度、EQ也很重要。即使畫得不錯一出口就酸人的話好案子也不會想靠近,畢竟案子背後也是人。 (L5nHOgkQ 15/03/28 11:09)
(゚∀゚)<: 這就跟很多公司徵材除了看能力之外更要看你是否能跟同事和諧相處&團隊合作,會把團隊氣氛搞爛的人除非厲害的跟神一樣不然大家都是敬謝不敏的 (L5nHOgkQ 15/03/28 11:12)
無標題 家裡蹲 ID:IP1c6bcgNo.479回報5推文

各位好我是原PO~
這次的案子因為無法簽合約我拒絕了,
對方來信表示了「你不懂行規」、
「這個案件成功以後我們會應用在很多文宣多媒體上,你怎麼不珍惜這個大好機會」等等等…

更加覺得拒絕是正確的,我認為,
如果真的這麼好,客戶也很重視,
怎麼會不能簽合約呢?
謝謝大家的回覆~雖然說對方還是一直盧我
「報價單等於合約!有蓋章就有算!」
不過我還是拒絕了!謝謝大家!

另外回覆SZ/5ngtk:
要說傷害好像也……XDD||||
不過你的回覆也是能讓我認知
『像這樣的程度有些人覺得沒有很好~』
大概是這種感覺~

因為有時候客戶喜歡的風格都很不一樣,
我想我只能盡力做到我的極限...

我通常是放上我的作品在各大接案網,
然後接到的案子都是海報或者DM設計貼圖類,
如果看到有人在徵求案件,我會主動寄信給對方~
有時候也是客戶自己找到我的這樣子。

遊戲美術或者ACG小說封面類的案子沒有接過@@,
(雖然很想接但強者太多了XD)
也想經營FB和噗浪但是產圖量太少太慢,
完全不知道怎麼進行....
這方面或許您比我有經驗的多~

第一篇發文的附圖是我最近的練習,
平常接的案子比較類似於這次的附圖~

有時候來板上看看也能看見一些我沒想過的問題,
不管是報價方面還是技術增進,總是很有收穫,
謝謝大家的回應~

(゚∀゚)<: 討厭那種自以為幫宣傳好棒棒:o那簽個合約會要你命喔既然一樣何必讓設計師有疑慮... (S/t2cx.g 15/03/28 00:14)
(゚∀゚)<: 案子都還沒談城就開始畫大餅(還拿來當壓你的藉口)九成九都地雷,恭喜你脫離 (L5nHOgkQ 15/03/28 11:04)
(゚∀゚)<: 我覺得本版可以整理個「地雷味發言TOP 10」列表之類的東西,讓新手一看就知哪種客戶有問題 (CcQpw4pM 15/03/30 13:08)
(゚∀゚)<: 尤其是說不用薪金而用「給你曝光機會」作借口的客戶…… (CcQpw4pM 15/03/30 13:10)
(´∀`)つ゛: 原po好可愛 摸摸你 (3FIC49K. 15/07/10 12:34)


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